329. Your Brand is Your Promise: The 4 C’s for Better Communication

WEBVTT

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All communication is about building
connections and relationships.

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My name's Matt Abrahams, and I
teach strategic communication at

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Stanford Graduate School of Business.

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Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.

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Today I am excited to
speak with Daniel Lubetzky.

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He's a pioneering social entrepreneur
and the founder of KIND Snacks.

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He leverages his unique background
in Stanford Law education to bridge

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deep societal divides, most recently
launching the Builders Movement to empower

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citizens to overcome toxic polarization.

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Daniel is a best-selling author of
Do the KIND Thing, and a full-time

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investor on TV's Shark Tank.

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He's launching his own
podcast called Build or Break.

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Well, welcome, Daniel.

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I am a lover of your KIND bars.

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My pantry is full of them, and I'm
looking forward to our conversation today.

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Thanks for being here.

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I'm so happy to be here, Matt.

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Thanks for having me.

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Excellent.

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Shall we get started?

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Absolutely.

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You distinguish between
builders and destroyers.

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Can you define these for us?

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And, and what role does
communication play in that?

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You know, my father was a Holocaust
survivor, so my entire life, or since

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I remember, I've been trying to build
bridges to prevent what happened to him

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from happening again to other people.

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And what I've learned is that every
one of us has a choice every single

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morning, every single day, in how we
look at other people and how we act.

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And we can either deny the humanity
of others and then proceed to

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try to divide, destroy, demolish,
diminish, or you can choose to wake

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up in the morning and think, "How
can I make this a better world?

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How can I build together?

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How can I try to elevate humanity?

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How can I unite and solve problems
together?" And then you're a builder.

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And it's a choice that all of us have
every day in how we live our lives,

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whether we're gonna try to solve problems
together or tear each other apart.

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And it seems very logical because
when I just shared this message,

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probably ninety-nine percent of your
listeners agree, but it's very easy

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for us to fall prey to social media
algorithms, to divisive media, to

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divisive politicians, to foreign
influences, to divisive rhetoric, to

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divisive curricula that frames things
as victim versus oppressor, and that

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makes us think that it's us versus them.

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And the natural proclivity over
the last many years has been to

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think that we are in our own tribe
rather than all of us being human.

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What does communication play into?

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It is the most important framework for
us to think and communicate our ideas.

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So without it, we have nothing.

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I appreciate that distinction and
that it is a choice, and communication

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forms, uh, the foundation, as you
said, to help us to break down those,

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those walls and build those bridges.

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You've defined four C's that
compromise a builder's mindset.

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Can you share what these are, and
how can we actively cultivate them in

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our daily interactions and in the way
we present ourselves in the world?

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Yeah.

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As you know, man, I founded KIND, the
healthy snack company that you, you like.

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But I've also built a lot of civic
movements in the Middle East between

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Arabs and Israelis, Palestinians
and Israelis working together, in

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the United States, the Builders
Movement, which is what this spin is

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about, to try to join forces against
extremism and towards solving problems.

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What I started realizing is the same
toolkit and the same mindset that helped

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me build KIND is the same toolkit that
helped me build movements and community.

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And it's the four C's are curiosity,
compassion, creativity, and courage.

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Curiosity to not assume that you have
all the answers, to search truth,

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to want to always be proven right or
wrong so that you can always learn and

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grow and, and develop the best ideas
for how to build the next snack or

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the best solution for homelessness.

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So curiosity is about the search for
truth, the search for commonality,

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which also leads us to compassion, to
the ability to put yourself in other

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people's shoes, not just because it's
the KIND thing to do, but because then

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you can understand where the other
person's coming, and then you can navigate

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differences and come up with solutions.

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Creativity to think outside the box,
and the courage to take leadership

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roles and to do things that might
sometimes be uncomfortable, to say

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what needs to be said in a constructive
way to try to solve problems together.

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We can be so busy and get so absorbed that
giving ourselves that little bit of grace

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and time really can make a difference.

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I appreciate that.

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In your work you have done in
bridge-building, in building

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businesses, what communication tools
do you recommend or have you found

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can really help keep the conversation
moving forward, especially when you

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see people slipping more into what
you call that destroyer mindset that's

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dividing more than bringing together?

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Probably the most important is
listening, is the ability for you

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to, which is very hard for all of
us and particularly for me to do.

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I always want to share, and I like to
hear my voice, and I have ideas, and

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I think I know where people are going.

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And you, as you know, I'm launching
a podcast called Build or Break,

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interviewing some of the most
extraordinary people, from Matthew

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McConaughey to Mark Cuban, from
Kendra Scott to Lucia Harish,

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across a spectrum of business,
artistry, geographies, demographies.

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And definitely, definitely the hardest
skill for me has been to learn to

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listen, and I, I'm enjoying Build or
Break because it's so challenging for

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me to not be the interviewee where I
can go everywhere else, and you're the

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one that has to keep the train running.

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So listening, I think, is an
incredibly powerful skill.

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And even the use of pauses when you're
speaking, that negative space very

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often creates a lot of positivity.

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So I think the use of
pauses is very important.

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I think more broadly in terms of
the communications tools that I

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would recommend to others is first
and foremost, as much as possible,

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practice, practice, practice.

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In Build or Break, one of the things that
has become very clear to me is that all

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of the most extraordinary people tried
a bunch of things that didn't work, but

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they got back on the horse, they dusted it
off, and then they tried and tried again.

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So developing the skills and the tools
for you to have the courage to get back on

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the horse, keep trying, because the more
that you practice, the more reps that you

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put into it, the better you'll get at it.

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I think there's a lot to be said
for learning how to articulate,

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how to be transparent, how to
construct sentences, but above

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all, to not lose your authenticity.

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To be yourself always.

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Because I find that you can be very
polished, but if you lose the essence

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of who you are, people are gonna tell.

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So I think the single most
important thing is for you to be

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authentic, for you to be yourself.

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And then within that, be present
and be comfortable understanding

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that you're there for a reason,
that people wanna hear you.

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Very often we get nervous, and we
feel that we're not supposed to be

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there, and so we speak very fast,
and then people can't understand you.

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So slowing yourself down, being
present, and connecting with people,

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listening to the audience and connecting
with them to understand what's the

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right beat for your conversation.

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Lots of rich responses and ideas there.

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I really resonated with the idea
that pausing leads to positivity.

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I like the play on words,
and I, and I like that.

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Taking the, the beat to let
the other person finish, and

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the ability to listen is hard.

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I would like to get your thoughts
on business and building business.

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Obviously, you have lots
of experience with that.

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You have watched hundreds
of pitches on Shark Tank.

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What is the most common communication
mistake entrepreneurs make when

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they're trying to influence people
or move them towards their position?

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The feeling that you need to be
right, and you need to demonstrate

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mastery at all times no matter what,
can really be your greatest undoing.

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If you do not know something, and you can
say, "That's a great question. I actually

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don't have the answer to that," all of a
sudden I like that person, and I lean in.

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I'm like, "Okay, when this person speaks,
I'm gonna trust what they say." By the

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way, they should know their basic stuff.

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But as a general rule, it's okay to
admit when somebody shares something

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you haven't thought about or where
you don't have a perfect answer

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to it, and you acknowledge it.

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Because it goes back to what you
were talking about earlier about

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the importance of introspection
and demonstrating self-reflection.

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And so you, if you're able to show
the ability to, as you go along,

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learn things that you need to learn,
I think it's a very important gift.

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And the opposite, total certitude at
all times, for me, doesn't excite me.

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So being human and, and admitting what
you know and what you don't know, and

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putting on a false bravado or false
knowledge will get you in trouble.

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I have often heard, and I'd be curious
to get your opinion, that, that people

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in your position, investors, uh, you
know, supporters of, of businesses,

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the idea is important, but the person
behind the idea is even more important.

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Do you, do you believe that to be true?

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I think for me and for almost
all investors, that's the case.

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Like, obviously, there's three things
that fundamentally need to be there:

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the person, the product, and the market.

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Like, there needs to be a fit.

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There's, somebody needs
to be looking for it.

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The product or service needs to be
better than the others, and the person

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or entrepreneur needs to be there.

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Ideally, you have all three.

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But if you don't have the entrepreneur,
you don't have anything, in my opinion.

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Whereas if you have the entrepreneur
and the other two are weak, you

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can work towards the others.

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So I heard Warren Buffett talk
about this many years ago.

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It's not unique.

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Always you'd bet on an entrepreneur over
the product, because the entrepreneur

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can then adjust the, to make things fit.

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It's the most essential thing.

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The reason I ask the question is I
think a lot of entrepreneurs, I do a

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lot of coaching of people who pitch,
and a lot of them really fixate on the

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product or the service, the market,
which are very important, as you said,

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but they don't pay any attention to
how they themselves are, are selling

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themselves and how they're coming across.

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And what I'm hearing you say is it's
important to be authentic and let people

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know who you are and where you stand.

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I have a question about, uh,
building businesses and audiences.

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Uh, you've built brands yourself
and, and you certainly coach others.

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When you're building a brand's audience
from the ground up, how do you strike

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that balance and manage that tension
between staying focused on your core

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mission, but also being flexible enough
to respond to what the market demands?

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That, that seems to be
a, a specific skill.

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Almost all amazing ventures did
not start with a product or service

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that they became successful at.

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Almost every company, almost every
idea, you start something and every one

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of the most inspiring entrepreneurial
people you've met, they start, they

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fall from the horse, they get back
on, and then they take a different

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journey, but then eventually they figure
it out because they don't give up.

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In terms of building a brand, the
most important thing is to understand

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that a brand is a promise, and a
great brand is a promise well kept.

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What does that mean?

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It means that a brand is a shortcut
for what can you expect from me?

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What is my value proposition?

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When you buy my KIND bar, this
is what you know you'll get.

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When you buy this service, this
is what you'll know you'll get.

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And so if you keep trying to reinvent
your brand to be everything to everybody,

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you'll end up being nothing to nobody.

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You need to be consistent.

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And so what you need to do is
set a set of guardrails for what

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my brand stands for and what it
will not do, and be true to it.

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You need to get feedback from the
marketplace, and it's a very tricky dance

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because if you say, "My brand is this,
I shall not adjust from it," and the

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market is telling you, "Pivot, pivot,
adjust, adjust," and you're not willing

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to listen, then you might also fail.

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But on the other side, if every
person that talks to you, you're

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trying to pivot and you're trying
to change yourself every single day,

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you're also gonna become nothing.

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So you need to find a way
to stay true to your values.

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And then if at some point the feedback
is significant enough that justifies

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calibration, make sure that it's not
a daily calibration, but a really,

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really rare thing that can help
get you into the right direction.

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But it, it has to be, there has to
be a lot of reflection into when

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do you deviate from the guardrails
that you set for yourself?

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I really like this idea
of brand as a promise.

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It's a shortcut to what
it is that you believe in.

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That's really important.

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And that tension of being committed
and dedicated to your values, the

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guardrails, as you said, but at the same
time being open and flexible to input

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and making those wise decisions based
on that, really important, uh, to help

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navigate as things change, and they will.

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Daniel, I know you have a very specific
process that you use to help people

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think through their entrepreneurial
ideas or products or services.

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Can you share that with us, please?

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I love my C's.

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I have the builder's mindset four C's,
but I also have three C's for the creative

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process of an entrepreneur, and this
is a very, very important set of C's.

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Whatever you're trying to do, whether
it's to come up with a product or

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an idea or a creative campaign,
you have to start with the creative

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process, then go into the critical
process, and then into the crusader.

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So during the creative process, it's
your brainstorming phase, and the

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rule is that there are no rules.

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You have to force yourself to
come up with idea after idea

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after idea and push yourself.

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And if you're in a brainstorming room
with others or with yourself in your

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mind, you have to say, "Nothing's off.

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Come up.

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Start thinking.

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Let's throw an idea.

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Okay, let's do this.

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Let's throw this product.

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No, what if it had this?

00:14:12.841 --> 00:14:14.037
What if it had giant tears?

00:14:14.037 --> 00:14:17.073
What if it was a camel walking the
streets of Manhattan?" Almost by

00:14:17.074 --> 00:14:21.291
definition, think so much outside
the box that your idea is ridiculous.

00:14:21.477 --> 00:14:22.847
Nobody's thought about this before.

00:14:23.244 --> 00:14:28.442
That's where you can defeat AI, because
AI is a conglomeration of prior ideas,

00:14:28.704 --> 00:14:31.458
but you need to think about something
that nobody's ever thought before for

00:14:31.460 --> 00:14:32.848
you to really, really create value.

00:14:33.848 --> 00:14:37.739
Then after you've done your creative
process, you take a break, 'cause

00:14:37.747 --> 00:14:41.929
during the creative process, you
cannot introduce any filters that

00:14:41.929 --> 00:14:43.514
will take out any of that creativity.

00:14:43.796 --> 00:14:46.283
You write down everything,
the stupidest idea.

00:14:46.284 --> 00:14:47.443
You write down everything.

00:14:47.781 --> 00:14:48.891
That's the creative process.

00:14:49.206 --> 00:14:51.489
You take a break, you come
back, and you introduce the

00:14:51.490 --> 00:14:53.802
critic, the consummate critic.

00:14:54.232 --> 00:14:58.483
And so the consummate critic,
you apply a bunch of filters.

00:14:58.752 --> 00:15:00.143
Has somebody done it before?

00:15:00.325 --> 00:15:01.967
Do I have the capability to do it?

00:15:02.252 --> 00:15:03.247
Does it make sense?

00:15:03.605 --> 00:15:06.874
Is it gonna fit with what I'm meant to do?

00:15:07.045 --> 00:15:07.829
Do I believe in it?

00:15:07.844 --> 00:15:09.461
What's the cost-benefit analysis?

00:15:09.647 --> 00:15:11.328
What's the input-output analysis?

00:15:11.328 --> 00:15:14.839
Does it, like, you ask all of the
questions about whether it makes sense.

00:15:14.878 --> 00:15:15.962
Can you execute it?

00:15:16.352 --> 00:15:17.142
Is it fun?

00:15:17.148 --> 00:15:18.420
Does it fit with your brand?

00:15:18.628 --> 00:15:21.579
You introduce all the filters that
you want, and you go through all

00:15:21.580 --> 00:15:24.544
of the list, and you apply the
filters, and then you narrow it down.

00:15:24.654 --> 00:15:28.047
For example, when I was launching
Moshe Pupik and Ali Mishmuken’s,

00:15:28.940 --> 00:15:31.722
somebody, one of my team members said,
"Let's have a camel walking through

00:15:31.722 --> 00:15:34.254
the streets of Manhattan." And we're
like, "Yeah, whatever." Wrote it down.

00:15:34.641 --> 00:15:37.096
And they're like, "That
would be so funny."

00:15:37.127 --> 00:15:40.988
And we ultimately ended up having
a camel walking through the streets

00:15:40.988 --> 00:15:44.164
of Manhattan, and it was hilarious,
and it got so much media attention

00:15:44.401 --> 00:15:45.750
'cause nobody had done it before.

00:15:45.751 --> 00:15:50.305
And so sometimes the silliest
idea actually is executable.

00:15:50.596 --> 00:15:56.025
So you go from the creative process to
the consummate critic, and then after the

00:15:56.028 --> 00:15:59.115
consummate critic, you go to the crusader.

00:15:59.367 --> 00:16:04.216
So particularly if you, it's, if it's
not just a stunt, but a product or a

00:16:04.216 --> 00:16:07.947
service or a venture that you wanna start
and you're brainstorming on what you're

00:16:07.949 --> 00:16:12.251
gonna do, you really need to go through
the critical phase enough that you're

00:16:12.356 --> 00:16:15.723
doing a lot of competitive intelligence
and you're asking a lot of questions to

00:16:15.723 --> 00:16:18.981
really understand that you've got what it
takes, and this is what gives you purpose,

00:16:18.981 --> 00:16:20.297
and this is what you really wanna do.

00:16:20.684 --> 00:16:24.905
But if you've gone through that
intellectual trial by fire and

00:16:24.905 --> 00:16:29.101
you're still convinced, at that
point you switch and you go from the

00:16:29.349 --> 00:16:31.853
consummate critic to the crusader.

00:16:32.363 --> 00:16:36.459
That means you are gonna get it
done and you're not gonna give up.

00:16:36.477 --> 00:16:37.591
You're not gonna give up easily.

00:16:37.591 --> 00:16:38.895
You're not gonna give up ever.

00:16:39.255 --> 00:16:43.546
You're gonna get through it because
any entrepreneur, any venture person

00:16:43.547 --> 00:16:47.906
that's trying to do, build a social
enterprise, a civic organization,

00:16:47.943 --> 00:16:50.421
a business, it is not easy.

00:16:50.961 --> 00:16:52.732
It's gonna be harder
than you ever imagined.

00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:58.008
And so you need to have the grit,
the gumption, the staying power to

00:16:58.030 --> 00:16:59.547
overcome any of those challenges.

00:16:59.547 --> 00:17:05.265
So that's where once you've gone through
those difficult questions to yourself

00:17:05.594 --> 00:17:08.866
and you've convinced yourself that
it's worth doing, you then click the

00:17:08.866 --> 00:17:11.992
switch and you're like, "All right. Now
I need to believe in myself and get it

00:17:11.995 --> 00:17:14.692
done and, and not be easily derailed."

00:17:15.273 --> 00:17:23.844
The three C's of creativity, critic,
and crusader really allow us to move

00:17:23.844 --> 00:17:27.524
and get the momentum we need to be
successful, and it seems to me that

00:17:27.524 --> 00:17:31.666
there are very specific gates that
you go through and then switch, so

00:17:31.666 --> 00:17:33.665
you're not traversing back and forth.

00:17:33.990 --> 00:17:37.305
And I like that point you said that
when you go from creativity to critic,

00:17:37.316 --> 00:17:38.738
you actually need to take a break.

00:17:38.789 --> 00:17:41.213
You need to actually switch those gears.

00:17:42.073 --> 00:17:45.720
Let's take a quick break for a word
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00:18:37.020 --> 00:18:38.142
Well, Daniel, this has been great.

00:18:38.147 --> 00:18:41.694
Before we end, as you well know,
I like to ask three questions.

00:18:41.697 --> 00:18:45.009
One I make up just for you, and
the rest I've been asking as

00:18:45.009 --> 00:18:46.306
long as the show's been around.

00:18:46.307 --> 00:18:47.045
Are you up for this?

00:18:47.262 --> 00:18:47.978
Absolutely.

00:18:48.294 --> 00:18:49.231
Excellent.

00:18:49.772 --> 00:18:53.404
Um, I found so many things
about your history fascinating.

00:18:53.418 --> 00:18:55.201
Uh, you're the son of
a Holocaust survivor.

00:18:55.207 --> 00:18:57.725
You have working knowledge
of over 40 languages.

00:18:57.730 --> 00:18:58.513
That's amazing.

00:18:58.838 --> 00:19:03.394
But perhaps most interesting to
me is you're a lifelong magician.

00:19:03.405 --> 00:19:06.944
Uh, early in my childhood, I
was fascinated by magic, took

00:19:06.952 --> 00:19:09.709
classes, put on shows, but you've
been doing this your whole life.

00:19:10.213 --> 00:19:14.578
How has your practice of magic
influenced your understanding of

00:19:14.717 --> 00:19:18.948
audiences, engagement, storytelling,
and, and even communication?

00:19:19.415 --> 00:19:24.187
100%. A lot of what I love the
most is goes back to my dad

00:19:24.232 --> 00:19:25.893
because he taught me magic.

00:19:25.897 --> 00:19:30.135
You know, he didn't have a childhood
because he went through the war and he

00:19:30.136 --> 00:19:33.409
was in a concentration camp, and he was
then liberated by American soldiers.

00:19:33.598 --> 00:19:39.245
When he started, growing up back when
he immigrated to Mexico, he discovered

00:19:39.264 --> 00:19:40.914
magic, and then he taught me some of it.

00:19:40.914 --> 00:19:43.714
And for me, I still today
think about him when I do it.

00:19:44.165 --> 00:19:47.970
Without any doubt, magic is a very
powerful tool for understanding

00:19:47.994 --> 00:19:53.244
people because a, a lot of magic
is about psychology and for

00:19:53.245 --> 00:19:54.675
example, the art of misdirection.

00:19:54.680 --> 00:20:00.886
I have here the Builder's logo,
and I'm gonna show you how I

00:20:00.892 --> 00:20:05.254
grab it, and it disappears, but
it was right here all along.

00:20:05.675 --> 00:20:11.031
And the way it works is I am convinced,
and where I look, you're gonna look.

00:20:11.033 --> 00:20:12.529
So I have it right here.

00:20:13.053 --> 00:20:18.074
I put it here, but I'm looking
with my eyes here, and you see me

00:20:18.074 --> 00:20:19.688
looking, and you see me pointing here.

00:20:19.900 --> 00:20:21.513
You see this vehicle?

00:20:21.727 --> 00:20:22.625
It's pointing here.

00:20:22.627 --> 00:20:23.658
My eyes are pointing here.

00:20:23.840 --> 00:20:25.992
So you think it's here,
but it wasn't here.

00:20:25.992 --> 00:20:27.424
I, I had kept it here.

00:20:27.990 --> 00:20:31.869
And where your eyes go,
the other person's go.

00:20:31.869 --> 00:20:32.989
So I've been in board meetings.

00:20:32.990 --> 00:20:36.155
I discovered this when I was
having board meetings at KIND,

00:20:36.555 --> 00:20:39.314
and sometimes I wanted one of my
team members to get the attention,

00:20:39.316 --> 00:20:40.765
but everybody was looking at me.

00:20:41.380 --> 00:20:44.687
I started looking at my team
member, and everybody started

00:20:44.688 --> 00:20:45.663
looking at my team member.

00:20:45.663 --> 00:20:49.196
So where your eyes go as a
leader, other peoples will follow.

00:20:49.198 --> 00:20:53.129
And so the way you look has
enormous power to empower your team.

00:20:53.489 --> 00:20:54.723
It's really fascinating.

00:20:54.728 --> 00:20:56.947
If anybody tries it, it's
really, really effective.

00:20:56.993 --> 00:21:03.236
I love how you've connected, uh,
magic, attention, uh, words, uh,

00:21:03.266 --> 00:21:07.878
together to really help people, uh,
one, have enjoyment when it's a magic

00:21:07.879 --> 00:21:10.999
show, but two, to actually learn and
be connected to what you're saying.

00:21:11.707 --> 00:21:16.265
Question number two, who is a
communicator that you admire and why?

00:21:16.832 --> 00:21:21.409
My father was the person that I
admired the most because the way

00:21:21.459 --> 00:21:25.667
he communicated was by being the
single best listener that I ever met.

00:21:26.367 --> 00:21:29.580
And he was a great coach.

00:21:29.588 --> 00:21:32.980
Like, he would listen, and the
way he would communicate is by

00:21:32.985 --> 00:21:34.755
helping me communicate with myself.

00:21:35.015 --> 00:21:38.401
Like, I would ask him for advice,
and he would reflect, and then

00:21:38.401 --> 00:21:41.842
would ask me questions that
would help me derive the answers.

00:21:41.871 --> 00:21:45.228
It's a real, real talent, and it's
very hard, and I would love to

00:21:45.228 --> 00:21:46.675
develop that skill that he has.

00:21:47.066 --> 00:21:49.419
But I've yet to become a great coach.

00:21:49.421 --> 00:21:52.767
I'm very good at telling you what to
do, but in terms of helping you figure

00:21:52.769 --> 00:21:54.865
it out on your own, that's next level.

00:21:55.475 --> 00:21:58.713
I really like that I asked you a question
about a communicator, and you immediately

00:21:58.713 --> 00:22:02.404
went to somebody who listens and
coaches, which, which is not typically

00:22:02.405 --> 00:22:04.013
where people go with that question.

00:22:04.021 --> 00:22:07.227
But, uh, like you, I would
argue that the ability to listen

00:22:07.228 --> 00:22:08.834
and coach is, are essential.

00:22:09.217 --> 00:22:10.838
Well, final question for you, Daniel.

00:22:10.846 --> 00:22:16.559
What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

00:22:16.987 --> 00:22:22.040
Self-confidence, practice, and meaning.

00:22:23.454 --> 00:22:25.185
And I think this one helps the others.

00:22:25.197 --> 00:22:27.941
But self-confidence, like believe
that you're there for a reason and

00:22:27.941 --> 00:22:29.284
people are there to listen to you.

00:22:29.885 --> 00:22:30.775
Own the room.

00:22:31.003 --> 00:22:32.039
Be present.

00:22:33.284 --> 00:22:35.974
Practice, practice, practice,
particularly your communication.

00:22:36.004 --> 00:22:37.255
Practice makes perfect.

00:22:37.752 --> 00:22:40.864
And then find something that
authentically gives you purpose and

00:22:40.864 --> 00:22:44.077
meaning, because if you do, you're
gonna be able to break through walls.

00:22:44.272 --> 00:22:48.027
So have confidence in yourself and
your message, practice to make sure

00:22:48.027 --> 00:22:51.211
it comes out the way you wish, and
to really do something that you're

00:22:51.219 --> 00:22:52.892
focused on and means a lot to you.

00:22:53.743 --> 00:22:58.293
Thank you so much for your time and
for sharing how we can all be builders

00:22:58.328 --> 00:23:02.947
of the ideas and the products and
services that we have, and for sharing

00:23:02.948 --> 00:23:06.623
with us a little bit about the impact
that magic can have across building

00:23:06.624 --> 00:23:08.265
bridges and breaking down barriers.

00:23:08.294 --> 00:23:09.259
I appreciate your time.

00:23:09.698 --> 00:23:10.828
Matt, thank you so much.

00:23:10.829 --> 00:23:11.457
It was a pleasure.

00:23:12.213 --> 00:23:14.391
Thank you for joining us
for another episode of Think

00:23:14.391 --> 00:23:16.572
Fast, Talk Smart, The Podcast.

00:23:16.952 --> 00:23:19.943
I really enjoyed speaking
with Daniel across all of the

00:23:19.943 --> 00:23:21.321
advice and guidance he gave.

00:23:21.583 --> 00:23:25.059
Among the ideas he shared that
really stood out to me was the idea

00:23:25.059 --> 00:23:27.906
that your brand is your promise.

00:23:28.212 --> 00:23:31.707
We really have to reflect on the
promise we're making as we look at

00:23:31.708 --> 00:23:33.756
our personal and company brands.

00:23:34.288 --> 00:23:37.033
To learn more about leadership and
staying true to your principles,

00:23:37.101 --> 00:23:40.234
please listen to Tara VanDerveer
in episode one fifty-three.

00:23:40.663 --> 00:23:44.420
This episode was produced by
Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, Alex

00:23:44.421 --> 00:23:46.481
McCarthy, and me, Matt Abrahams.

00:23:46.747 --> 00:23:49.264
Our music is from Floyd
Wonder, with special thanks

00:23:49.269 --> 00:23:50.976
to the Podium Podcast Company.

00:23:51.285 --> 00:23:54.395
Please find us on YouTube and
wherever you get your podcasts.

00:23:54.547 --> 00:23:56.709
Be sure to subscribe and rate us.

00:23:56.946 --> 00:24:00.438
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