316. The Persuasion Equation: Grab Attention & Make Your Message Meaningful

WEBVTT

00:00:02.990 --> 00:00:07.220
Perfecting your persuasion and increasing
your influence can help you in your

00:00:07.230 --> 00:00:12.450
communication, both at work and in your
personal life My name is Matt Abrahams,

00:00:12.620 --> 00:00:15.990
and I teach Strategic Communication at
Stanford Graduate School of Business.

00:00:16.340 --> 00:00:19.320
Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.

00:00:20.250 --> 00:00:23.299
Today, I look forward to speaking
again with Carmine Gallo.

00:00:23.390 --> 00:00:25.950
Carmine was my guest in episode 103.

00:00:26.380 --> 00:00:28.869
He's the founder and CEO
of Gallo Communications.

00:00:29.140 --> 00:00:32.670
Carmine is a communication coach,
Harvard Graduate School of Design

00:00:32.670 --> 00:00:36.799
lecturer, and the author of several
really influential and important books,

00:00:36.800 --> 00:00:41.009
like Talk Like Ted, The Presentation
Secrets of Steve Jobs, The Bezos

00:00:41.050 --> 00:00:46.400
Blueprint, and his new audiobook, Viral
Voices: From TED to TikTok, Persuasive

00:00:46.400 --> 00:00:48.099
Techniques for the Digital Age.

00:00:48.459 --> 00:00:49.750
Welcome back, Carmine.

00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:52.000
We had such a great
conversation last time.

00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:53.030
I appreciate you being here.

00:00:53.199 --> 00:00:55.189
Thanks, Matt, and thank
you for inviting me.

00:00:55.339 --> 00:00:56.019
Should we get started?

00:00:56.029 --> 00:00:56.409
Yes.

00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:57.149
Excellent.

00:00:57.380 --> 00:01:01.459
Your new audiobook is based on the
premise that the brain does not

00:01:01.459 --> 00:01:03.609
pay attention to boring things.

00:01:03.819 --> 00:01:08.249
In today's hyper-distracted attention
economy, what is the first thing a

00:01:08.249 --> 00:01:13.709
communicator must do to bypass the
cognitive spam filters that come up?

00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:16.830
I love the fact that you
brought up the brain doesn't

00:01:16.830 --> 00:01:18.750
pay attention to boring things.

00:01:18.780 --> 00:01:23.579
If that's all our listeners get from
today's podcast, that will significantly

00:01:23.579 --> 00:01:25.300
improve their communication skills.

00:01:25.570 --> 00:01:30.839
Because the brain, when it doesn't have
to pay attention to something because it

00:01:30.839 --> 00:01:37.019
deems it not a threat or not essential for
survival, it'll move on to something else.

00:01:37.030 --> 00:01:38.270
Very happy to do so.

00:01:38.449 --> 00:01:39.800
And it'll conserve energy.

00:01:40.170 --> 00:01:46.029
So the challenge that we all have
as communicators is how to, like

00:01:46.030 --> 00:01:50.369
you said, get through that filter,
how to grab the brain's attention.

00:01:50.589 --> 00:01:54.469
And we do that by raising
the signal through the noise.

00:01:54.609 --> 00:01:56.769
And there's a lot of
noise out there today.

00:01:57.009 --> 00:02:01.849
The best way for a communicator to get
their ideas across is to strengthen

00:02:01.850 --> 00:02:06.739
the signal, and that will cut through
the noise, cut through the filter,

00:02:06.990 --> 00:02:08.359
capture the brain's attention.

00:02:08.749 --> 00:02:12.599
And what I've been taught by
neuroscientists and many people who I've

00:02:12.600 --> 00:02:17.330
interviewed is that there are two primary
ways of getting through those filters.

00:02:17.679 --> 00:02:21.769
Right now, especially in the age
of AI, we do have something unique

00:02:21.769 --> 00:02:23.889
that AI does not have: emotion.

00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:28.959
Joy and fear are two of the most
powerful emotions, and that's why

00:02:28.970 --> 00:02:31.969
social media prioritizes threats.

00:02:32.250 --> 00:02:36.479
"If you don't do this now, you'll be
in trouble." Those go viral because

00:02:36.780 --> 00:02:38.850
it ignites the threat response.

00:02:39.269 --> 00:02:42.959
Or on the other hand, on business
presentations, business communication,

00:02:43.110 --> 00:02:46.789
"If you do this, if you take
these three steps, you can thrive

00:02:46.789 --> 00:02:50.569
in the age of AI." So that gives
me some, something to hope for.

00:02:50.729 --> 00:02:55.509
But as long as things connect to
an emotion, that is the principal

00:02:55.509 --> 00:02:58.740
way of cutting through that noise,
getting through that filter.

00:02:59.129 --> 00:03:05.889
The other way is make sure that whatever
you say applies to the audience.

00:03:06.382 --> 00:03:10.872
Because the other question that
the brain is asking itself is, why

00:03:10.872 --> 00:03:13.402
should I care about this person?

00:03:13.712 --> 00:03:15.992
Why should I care about the content?

00:03:16.271 --> 00:03:20.791
So for example, in this podcast, you
should care because what Matt and I

00:03:20.792 --> 00:03:25.271
are going to discuss will help you
build the career that you dreamed

00:03:25.271 --> 00:03:27.472
of and thrive in the age of AI.

00:03:27.622 --> 00:03:29.992
So listen up, because we're gonna
give you a lot of good tips.

00:03:30.151 --> 00:03:31.741
Wow, what a great hook.

00:03:31.952 --> 00:03:35.812
So it's about relevance and salience,
and it's about emotion, and that's what

00:03:35.862 --> 00:03:39.682
helps the brain focus and gets people
engaged, and I really appreciate that.

00:03:39.682 --> 00:03:41.931
And many of us don't
start from that place.

00:03:42.321 --> 00:03:46.751
In Viral Voices, your new audiobook, you
explore a multitude of communicators.

00:03:46.761 --> 00:03:50.602
The list is large, and they're very
different from Barack Obama to MrBeast.

00:03:50.931 --> 00:03:55.601
Is there a common denominator between a
historic presidential address, let's say,

00:03:55.601 --> 00:03:57.831
and a highly engaged viral YouTube video?

00:03:57.961 --> 00:04:00.862
And if there is, what is it and
why should we care about it?

00:04:01.562 --> 00:04:05.752
The one big lesson that I learned from
two years of doing the research on

00:04:05.752 --> 00:04:10.331
Viral Voices is something that I think
everybody needs to understand, and

00:04:10.331 --> 00:04:16.311
that is that the tools of communication
have changed, the human brain has not.

00:04:16.771 --> 00:04:20.401
So now you're talking about the
human brain, which is a 350,000

00:04:20.411 --> 00:04:22.761
year construction project.

00:04:23.191 --> 00:04:29.741
TikTok has not been around long enough to
rewire our brains, but there are patterns.

00:04:30.091 --> 00:04:34.391
If you look at patterns, they're
very similar, which was the cool

00:04:34.401 --> 00:04:36.362
thing about the people I interviewed.

00:04:36.641 --> 00:04:38.621
You mentioned Barack Obama and MrBeast.

00:04:38.871 --> 00:04:39.411
Okay.

00:04:39.521 --> 00:04:40.562
What are the similarities?

00:04:40.632 --> 00:04:41.951
Both are storytellers.

00:04:42.132 --> 00:04:47.101
Different types of stories, different
audiences, different platforms, but

00:04:47.102 --> 00:04:51.562
they are both skilled at weaving
together a narrative that makes

00:04:51.562 --> 00:04:53.422
you wanna be a part of the story.

00:04:53.852 --> 00:04:59.421
I interviewed Barack Obama's speechwriter,
his name is Terry Szuplat, who also now

00:04:59.422 --> 00:05:05.781
teaches at the university level, and he
told me that a good speech has things

00:05:05.791 --> 00:05:09.491
like structure, a melody like a song.

00:05:09.841 --> 00:05:10.771
I said, "Like a song?

00:05:10.841 --> 00:05:13.971
What do you mean by that?" He said,
"Let's take a look at some speeches."

00:05:13.971 --> 00:05:15.361
We broke down some speeches.

00:05:15.462 --> 00:05:18.532
And that's the cool part about
having an audio original, because

00:05:18.532 --> 00:05:19.902
then you can cut to the speeches.

00:05:20.182 --> 00:05:24.042
So Barack Obama, "Yes we
can," those three words.

00:05:24.251 --> 00:05:30.501
But the way they wrote it at the end
of a sentence provided a melody to it.

00:05:30.731 --> 00:05:34.741
So what the speechwriter was trying
to show me is that everything

00:05:34.742 --> 00:05:39.831
starts with good writing, but
writing is part science, part art.

00:05:40.406 --> 00:05:42.626
And you have to think
about what's the structure.

00:05:42.936 --> 00:05:47.325
MrBeast has a three-act structure,
much like a good Hollywood film.

00:05:47.635 --> 00:05:51.356
He understands that here's the status
quo, here's the problem we're gonna

00:05:51.356 --> 00:05:56.176
solve, here's the conflict that's going to
arise if we don't solve this problem, but

00:05:56.205 --> 00:05:58.726
together we're gonna solve the problem.

00:05:59.155 --> 00:06:01.125
So the, it's, uh, very much structural.

00:06:01.536 --> 00:06:04.116
So you can learn something
from great communicators.

00:06:04.116 --> 00:06:04.666
That's the point.

00:06:04.675 --> 00:06:08.595
You can learn something about
the written word and delivery

00:06:08.616 --> 00:06:10.786
and melody and construction.

00:06:10.786 --> 00:06:13.885
You can also learn how to grab
people's attention quickly

00:06:13.985 --> 00:06:15.455
and keep their attention.

00:06:15.765 --> 00:06:19.886
I think all great communicators in
different platforms have something to

00:06:19.886 --> 00:06:23.096
teach us, but above all, there's patterns.

00:06:23.585 --> 00:06:27.115
The fact that we are communicating
through different tools, different

00:06:27.125 --> 00:06:30.735
techniques, we're still communicating
with the same old brain we've had.

00:06:30.816 --> 00:06:35.846
And so those lessons learned in the
past apply today, and I appreciate

00:06:35.846 --> 00:06:37.835
you delineating many of them.

00:06:37.866 --> 00:06:43.046
And I love this idea of communication
having a musicality, a melody to

00:06:43.046 --> 00:06:46.295
it, and you see that in many of the
most admired communicators we have.

00:06:46.785 --> 00:06:50.276
A lot of your new work is
around persuasion, influence.

00:06:50.635 --> 00:06:54.686
As you look back, not just in the work
you did for Viral Voices, but in your

00:06:54.805 --> 00:06:58.916
esteemed career, can you identify two
or three persuasion techniques, tools,

00:06:58.916 --> 00:07:04.296
or tactics that you think everyone
should have in their influence toolkit?

00:07:04.855 --> 00:07:08.086
The hook, the analogy, the context.

00:07:08.366 --> 00:07:12.955
Hook is important, especially now more
than ever, because of social media.

00:07:13.086 --> 00:07:16.255
So it is important to, what
they say, stop the scroll.

00:07:16.535 --> 00:07:19.946
If you're doing a podcast, if you're
doing any type of social media,

00:07:20.275 --> 00:07:24.155
you've gotta stop people from just
scrolling and moving on blindly.

00:07:24.156 --> 00:07:27.365
How do you create a hook
that grabs their attention?

00:07:27.845 --> 00:07:30.445
Again, great communicators
do this all the time.

00:07:30.695 --> 00:07:33.326
Let's go back to 1998.

00:07:33.326 --> 00:07:37.115
Sergey Brin and Larry Page were
here as Stanford graduate students.

00:07:37.265 --> 00:07:41.565
They came up with a new search engine
called Google, and they crafted a

00:07:41.565 --> 00:07:47.725
one-sentence pitch, and the pitch went
like this: "Google organizes the world's

00:07:47.726 --> 00:07:50.345
information and makes it accessible."

00:07:50.855 --> 00:07:55.145
They used that pitch when they
went to meet with Michael Moritz

00:07:55.465 --> 00:07:59.115
of Sequoia Capital, one of the big
venture capitalists in Silicon Valley.

00:07:59.476 --> 00:08:03.915
I interviewed Michael Moritz years ago,
and he said he still remembers that

00:08:03.916 --> 00:08:06.395
line because it grabbed his attention.

00:08:06.855 --> 00:08:10.315
Then the follow-up was,
"Oh, that's interesting.

00:08:10.435 --> 00:08:11.456
Can I see a demo?

00:08:11.616 --> 00:08:12.525
Does it work?

00:08:12.815 --> 00:08:17.885
Then we can talk about finances." But the
hook he said, he didn't call it a hook,

00:08:17.895 --> 00:08:19.925
he said that one line meant everything.

00:08:20.226 --> 00:08:24.395
And now if you go on social media, go on
TikTok, and all these content creators are

00:08:24.395 --> 00:08:28.395
trying to teach you how to grab people's
attention in the first three seconds.

00:08:28.946 --> 00:08:33.275
Get to the point, get to it quickly,
make it relevant, tell people why they

00:08:33.276 --> 00:08:35.256
should care, and they'll start leaning in.

00:08:35.822 --> 00:08:38.751
You asked for top three
persuasion techniques.

00:08:38.751 --> 00:08:40.332
Okay, so think about the hook.

00:08:40.631 --> 00:08:41.491
Analogy.

00:08:41.662 --> 00:08:45.422
Analogy is something I'm really
focused on these days because great

00:08:45.422 --> 00:08:50.621
communicators tend to use more
analogy than average communicators.

00:08:51.052 --> 00:08:56.101
An analogy's comparing two things
to show their similarities, usually

00:08:56.101 --> 00:08:59.801
used to take something that's
abstract and make it familiar.

00:09:00.131 --> 00:09:03.702
Warren Buffett is the king
of analogies and metaphors.

00:09:03.951 --> 00:09:08.972
So every time you watch CNBC, you'll
always find an analyst who says, "I love

00:09:08.982 --> 00:09:14.071
this stock because this company has a
moat around it." Well, I looked that up.

00:09:14.131 --> 00:09:19.421
This whole thing about the moat, it
has barriers to entry, makes it hard

00:09:19.421 --> 00:09:21.481
for competitors to enter that space.

00:09:21.802 --> 00:09:25.792
This whole idea of a company or
stock having a moat, that comes

00:09:25.792 --> 00:09:29.341
from a newsletter that Warren
Buffett wrote about 40 years ago.

00:09:29.552 --> 00:09:33.272
So it stands the test of
time because it's a shortcut.

00:09:33.592 --> 00:09:34.621
Start with a hook.

00:09:34.732 --> 00:09:37.131
Make sure you have
analogies and comparisons.

00:09:37.412 --> 00:09:40.101
And something we've
already mentioned, context.

00:09:40.101 --> 00:09:42.901
Make people care as soon as possible.

00:09:43.171 --> 00:09:46.281
Because from what I've learned from
neuroscientists, the brain is asking

00:09:46.281 --> 00:09:48.832
itself the question, "Make me care.

00:09:49.222 --> 00:09:54.111
Why should I listen?" Otherwise, the
brain has a lot of other stuff to

00:09:54.112 --> 00:09:56.911
do, and it, it gets bored easily.

00:09:57.171 --> 00:09:58.791
Make them care right at the beginning.

00:09:59.171 --> 00:10:04.162
This new platform, this new software that
we're gonna talk about today is going to

00:10:04.162 --> 00:10:09.221
save us X amount of money, which means
that we're going to have a better career

00:10:09.222 --> 00:10:13.891
here at the company, and we can hire
those 10 new staffers that can support us.

00:10:14.331 --> 00:10:15.481
Make it relevant.

00:10:15.831 --> 00:10:19.231
Tell people right up front, "Here
is why you should listen to the rest

00:10:19.231 --> 00:10:22.861
of my presentation." And they will,
but you have to hand it to them.

00:10:23.161 --> 00:10:24.651
Hand it to them on a platter.

00:10:25.091 --> 00:10:25.761
Absolutely.

00:10:25.771 --> 00:10:29.631
So you've given us the HAC,
hook, analogy, and contents.

00:10:29.642 --> 00:10:30.552
HAC.

00:10:30.581 --> 00:10:34.252
And what I want everybody who's
listening and watching to recognize is

00:10:34.252 --> 00:10:37.501
what Carmine did is, as he went through
that, he gave you the information.

00:10:37.671 --> 00:10:40.941
He said what it was, the hook, the
analogy, explained what it was, and

00:10:40.941 --> 00:10:44.551
then gave a concrete example, and that's
another way to help the brain learn.

00:10:44.561 --> 00:10:46.622
You give an idea, and
then you reinforce it.

00:10:46.622 --> 00:10:49.482
And you did that expertly
without calling attention to it.

00:10:49.831 --> 00:10:52.331
I want to get into the details
and the mechanics of some of

00:10:52.342 --> 00:10:54.731
the things that you've studied
and you write and talk about.

00:10:54.971 --> 00:10:58.191
You rely on, a lot on
the three-act structure.

00:10:58.521 --> 00:11:00.111
And you talk about beats.

00:11:00.471 --> 00:11:05.311
And I'd love for you to share with
us how we can apply things like

00:11:05.311 --> 00:11:08.642
the three-act structure and beats
to our everyday communication.

00:11:08.642 --> 00:11:11.472
Not a TED Talk, not when we're
doing a big presentation.

00:11:11.801 --> 00:11:14.961
When we're on a Zoom, a Team, a
Meet, when we're having our normal

00:11:14.961 --> 00:11:19.252
interactions, how can we leverage
these tools to help us be better and

00:11:19.262 --> 00:11:20.991
more engaging in our communication?

00:11:21.301 --> 00:11:25.422
Every Hollywood movie that's
successful has a three-act structure.

00:11:25.911 --> 00:11:29.351
So three-act structure, set
up, conflict, resolution.

00:11:29.942 --> 00:11:34.332
That's very easy to apply in almost any
pitch, presentation, a Zoom meeting.

00:11:34.702 --> 00:11:35.942
Folks, here we are today.

00:11:36.042 --> 00:11:38.672
Here's the problem with where
we are today, and here's how

00:11:38.672 --> 00:11:39.801
we're gonna solve that problem.

00:11:39.982 --> 00:11:40.672
That's easy.

00:11:41.161 --> 00:11:43.352
I like this idea called beats.

00:11:43.802 --> 00:11:48.162
I enjoy talking to screenwriters because
they're really good storytellers, and

00:11:48.172 --> 00:11:52.222
everything that they talk about applies
to business presentations in some way.

00:11:52.472 --> 00:11:56.202
So they started telling me about
beats, and I guess anyone who's done

00:11:56.202 --> 00:11:58.481
screenwriting knows exactly what that is.

00:11:58.642 --> 00:12:03.231
Within the three-act structure,
there are scenes, important scenes.

00:12:03.492 --> 00:12:08.112
For example, in every rom-com
ever made, there's the inciting

00:12:08.181 --> 00:12:12.022
incident, the catalyst, as some
people call it, the catalyst.

00:12:12.262 --> 00:12:16.651
The meet cute, that's when Hugh Grant's
character bumps into Julia Roberts

00:12:16.652 --> 00:12:20.132
on the streets of London and spills
orange juice all over her blouse,

00:12:20.132 --> 00:12:23.081
and it just so happens that his
apartment is right down the street.

00:12:23.751 --> 00:12:25.052
The adventure begins.

00:12:25.172 --> 00:12:27.611
Without that incident,
there's no adventure.

00:12:27.981 --> 00:12:34.032
Now start thinking about entrepreneurs
and some of the stories they tell.

00:12:34.552 --> 00:12:35.731
It's the same thing.

00:12:35.762 --> 00:12:37.951
Everyone has an inciting incident.

00:12:38.211 --> 00:12:40.091
That's part of the appeal.

00:12:40.561 --> 00:12:42.552
Two friends driving to work.

00:12:42.861 --> 00:12:47.891
One friend is upset because he got
charged a $40 late fee on a VHS

00:12:47.921 --> 00:12:52.371
copy of Apollo 13, and he thought to
himself, "There must be a better way."

00:12:52.501 --> 00:12:56.552
His other friend, who was an entrepreneur
trying to think of some new ideas,

00:12:56.552 --> 00:13:02.811
said, "Maybe we can make video rental
work better," and Netflix is born.

00:13:03.544 --> 00:13:08.324
Now, it takes a few years in
between the inciting incident

00:13:08.784 --> 00:13:12.534
and for Netflix to really get
going, but the incident is there.

00:13:12.684 --> 00:13:15.974
And notice something about that inciting
incident, which if you look it up,

00:13:15.974 --> 00:13:17.444
you'll see that story everywhere.

00:13:17.764 --> 00:13:19.664
There's two details in that incident.

00:13:20.114 --> 00:13:23.664
There's a $40 late fee,
and there's Apollo 13.

00:13:24.083 --> 00:13:28.974
There have to be a couple of details to
make it sound like it would have happened.

00:13:29.343 --> 00:13:30.533
That's the art.

00:13:30.794 --> 00:13:33.473
That's kind of the art of creating a beat.

00:13:34.014 --> 00:13:35.563
But a beat is important.

00:13:35.944 --> 00:13:40.503
I've talked to a lot of investors, too,
and they often ask, "What's the origin?

00:13:40.514 --> 00:13:42.583
Why did you start this company?

00:13:42.753 --> 00:13:47.644
Why did you come up with this idea?"
There's always an inciting incident, but

00:13:47.644 --> 00:13:49.083
people don't think about it that way.

00:13:49.093 --> 00:13:51.973
They just go right into
their product or their idea.

00:13:52.133 --> 00:13:54.213
Instead, think more like a storyteller.

00:13:54.633 --> 00:13:58.634
How would a screenwriter
write the story of your life?

00:13:59.093 --> 00:14:00.363
Include the structure.

00:14:00.394 --> 00:14:02.913
Include a few catalysts
or inciting incidents.

00:14:03.153 --> 00:14:08.153
Through, in every screenplay, there
has to be a all is lost moment.

00:14:08.443 --> 00:14:10.624
Some people call it the all is lost.

00:14:10.943 --> 00:14:13.953
Joseph Campbell in the 1940s
called it the belly of the

00:14:13.953 --> 00:14:16.413
beast, descent into the abyss.

00:14:16.673 --> 00:14:17.863
It's all the same thing.

00:14:17.864 --> 00:14:19.493
This is the low point.

00:14:19.934 --> 00:14:24.143
So now listen to Brian Chesky
talk about the origins of Airbnb.

00:14:24.434 --> 00:14:27.573
You had the catalyst, the inciting
incident where they rented out air

00:14:27.583 --> 00:14:29.493
mattresses to people coming into town.

00:14:29.623 --> 00:14:30.883
Airbnb is born.

00:14:31.293 --> 00:14:34.853
But then they go through a lot of ups
and downs, and at one point, Brian

00:14:34.854 --> 00:14:40.093
Chesky said this many times, "We couldn't
even afford milk for the cereal, but we

00:14:40.093 --> 00:14:44.723
were relentless, and we had to pivot,
and we were innovative." So it kind of

00:14:44.733 --> 00:14:46.923
gives you this sense of who they are.

00:14:47.153 --> 00:14:49.093
But he always goes back to
the milk and the cereal.

00:14:49.354 --> 00:14:50.563
That's the low point.

00:14:50.883 --> 00:14:54.324
I mean, you could just feel
yourself struggling with it.

00:14:54.763 --> 00:14:55.293
Yeah.

00:14:55.763 --> 00:14:57.464
So stories have structure.

00:14:57.784 --> 00:15:02.393
They have three parts, and a beat
is an important inciting event

00:15:02.453 --> 00:15:04.254
that has specific detail to it.

00:15:04.274 --> 00:15:07.794
And if we're planning a meeting, we
can think about it in terms of beats.

00:15:07.813 --> 00:15:09.434
Where is the important incident?

00:15:09.493 --> 00:15:11.283
How do I want the flow to be?

00:15:11.563 --> 00:15:14.313
We so often just think we have
all this material to get across,

00:15:14.313 --> 00:15:18.053
but we can actually architect our
presentations, our meetings, our

00:15:18.084 --> 00:15:20.453
conversations by focusing on the beats.

00:15:20.463 --> 00:15:22.503
And I like that analogy.

00:15:22.543 --> 00:15:24.443
Beats are things that we have in music.

00:15:24.724 --> 00:15:29.144
They are timed, and they provide a point
of focus, and we can build those in.

00:15:30.325 --> 00:15:32.726
Well, you've been in this seat
before, so you know before we end,

00:15:32.726 --> 00:15:34.185
I like to ask three questions.

00:15:34.226 --> 00:15:36.845
One I create just for you, and
the other two are similar to

00:15:36.856 --> 00:15:37.776
everybody I've interviewed.

00:15:37.776 --> 00:15:38.455
Are you up for that?

00:15:38.536 --> 00:15:38.886
Sure.

00:15:39.106 --> 00:15:42.065
So you have spent a lot of time
on your most recent audiobook.

00:15:42.286 --> 00:15:46.575
Was there a specific tactic or realization
from all of those conversations

00:15:46.575 --> 00:15:50.246
you had that fundamentally shifted
your perspective on how to be a

00:15:50.246 --> 00:15:51.845
better communicator or persuader?

00:15:52.366 --> 00:15:54.045
Tools have changed, the brain has not.

00:15:54.435 --> 00:16:00.185
Because whether I spoke to speech writers
or people who wrote presentations years

00:16:00.185 --> 00:16:06.456
ago that went viral, we could look at
Steve Jobs, the Steve Jobs 2007 iPhone

00:16:06.486 --> 00:16:09.235
presentation, that's viral, okay?

00:16:09.266 --> 00:16:14.215
In a little different way than a cat
meme, but it went viral on its own

00:16:14.215 --> 00:16:19.646
platform, and viral videos, like we
just talked about, content creators,

00:16:19.805 --> 00:16:21.345
they follow the same structure.

00:16:21.685 --> 00:16:24.275
And Steve Jobs, that was all storytelling.

00:16:24.435 --> 00:16:26.006
And how many stories did he tell?

00:16:26.385 --> 00:16:29.218
Three He didn't give you 12, three.

00:16:29.378 --> 00:16:33.848
And you and I both know that three is
a really good memorable number to have.

00:16:34.218 --> 00:16:35.678
So that's the big takeaway.

00:16:35.798 --> 00:16:40.018
Big takeaway was tools of communication
have changed, human brain has not.

00:16:40.237 --> 00:16:41.528
Study psychology.

00:16:41.898 --> 00:16:43.658
Study behavioral psychology.

00:16:43.688 --> 00:16:46.267
Study the way the brain
processes information.

00:16:46.567 --> 00:16:49.178
You'll be a much better and a
more effective communicator.

00:16:49.617 --> 00:16:54.258
It is, in some ways, very
simple, but very insightful.

00:16:54.598 --> 00:16:55.438
And thank you for that.

00:16:55.987 --> 00:16:59.428
Since we last spoke, you've had an
opportunity to work with and talk

00:16:59.428 --> 00:17:01.667
to and coach many more speakers.

00:17:01.668 --> 00:17:05.627
So I'm wondering for question two,
if the answer has changed, who is a

00:17:05.627 --> 00:17:07.977
communicator that you admire and why?

00:17:08.407 --> 00:17:12.917
You're getting me on during a
time where Apple is celebrating

00:17:12.917 --> 00:17:15.177
its 50th anniversary, okay?

00:17:15.638 --> 00:17:21.018
So I'm a little biased and jaded right
now because at home on my bookshelf is

00:17:21.018 --> 00:17:25.387
the brand-new beautiful David Pogue's
book, Apple: The First 50 Years.

00:17:25.737 --> 00:17:30.137
I'm still gonna say Steve Jobs because
I'm, I've been reminiscing and I've been

00:17:30.217 --> 00:17:36.277
watching even before he had slide decks
and before PowerPoint, before Keynote, he

00:17:36.277 --> 00:17:42.497
was still crafting a story, a story that
brought you in and made you to believe

00:17:42.497 --> 00:17:44.767
in something bigger than the product.

00:17:45.258 --> 00:17:46.807
So he gave people a reason.

00:17:47.127 --> 00:17:48.488
He gave people an identity.

00:17:48.807 --> 00:17:53.187
Here's to the crazy ones, the square
pegs in the round holes, the people who

00:17:53.188 --> 00:17:55.178
aren't satisfied with the status quo.

00:17:55.467 --> 00:17:59.768
And then he said in a presentation, "Some
people think they're crazy, but in that

00:17:59.768 --> 00:18:05.658
craziness we see genius." Okay, when I see
this I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I want to be a

00:18:05.658 --> 00:18:11.497
part of this." To this day when I see that
presentation, I want to be a part of that.

00:18:12.057 --> 00:18:13.707
That's a storyteller.

00:18:14.048 --> 00:18:15.207
That's a storyteller.

00:18:15.347 --> 00:18:19.478
Tony Fadell, who worked side by
side with Steve Jobs, created the

00:18:19.478 --> 00:18:24.207
iPod, went on to found Nest and
had success in other companies.

00:18:24.387 --> 00:18:29.007
He was asked not too long ago on
a podcast, "What is the biggest

00:18:29.008 --> 00:18:32.407
lesson you took away from Steve
Jobs?" He said, "Storytelling,

00:18:32.487 --> 00:18:34.067
storytelling, storytelling."

00:18:34.517 --> 00:18:37.207
I know Tony and he definitely
is a good storyteller and

00:18:37.208 --> 00:18:38.468
learned a lot from Steve Jobs.

00:18:38.837 --> 00:18:40.658
Question number three, our final question.

00:18:40.967 --> 00:18:45.707
What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

00:18:46.208 --> 00:18:50.128
Now more than ever we need to
focus on emotion because emotion

00:18:50.128 --> 00:18:52.298
is something that AI doesn't have.

00:18:52.817 --> 00:18:54.458
So it can write pretty well.

00:18:54.717 --> 00:18:56.257
It's improving with grammar.

00:18:56.337 --> 00:18:57.377
Doesn't have emotion.

00:18:57.628 --> 00:19:00.958
So I think the three have
to start with emotion.

00:19:01.378 --> 00:19:02.507
Make it emotional.

00:19:02.617 --> 00:19:07.245
Make it understandable,
clarity, and make it memorable.

00:19:07.726 --> 00:19:10.186
Emotion, clarity, and make it memorable.

00:19:10.616 --> 00:19:14.186
I think if you have those three
elements, you'll certainly

00:19:14.186 --> 00:19:16.906
stand out as a communicator,
'cause not everybody does that.

00:19:17.386 --> 00:19:18.456
I appreciate those three.

00:19:18.515 --> 00:19:19.735
Thank you for summarizing them.

00:19:19.755 --> 00:19:22.745
Starting with emotion, starting
with that connection, then following

00:19:22.745 --> 00:19:24.535
with clarity, really important.

00:19:24.575 --> 00:19:27.215
And those two together I
think help lead to the third,

00:19:27.226 --> 00:19:28.555
which is making it memorable.

00:19:29.235 --> 00:19:32.555
As was this conversation, as
I knew it would be, Carmine,

00:19:32.555 --> 00:19:34.275
thank you for your insight.

00:19:34.295 --> 00:19:37.785
Thank you for bringing the past, in
some cases the distant past, into

00:19:37.785 --> 00:19:41.685
the present and helping us understand
how it will help us in the future.

00:19:41.735 --> 00:19:43.126
I really appreciate your work.

00:19:43.166 --> 00:19:44.815
I wish you well on Viral Voices.

00:19:44.995 --> 00:19:49.385
It is a great listen, and I
encourage everybody to continue

00:19:49.385 --> 00:19:50.835
to hone and develop their skills.

00:19:50.966 --> 00:19:51.365
Thank you.

00:19:51.595 --> 00:19:52.626
Thank you for the invite.

00:19:54.235 --> 00:19:56.346
Thank you for joining us
for another episode of Think

00:19:56.346 --> 00:19:58.345
Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

00:19:58.765 --> 00:20:01.625
To learn more from Carmine,
please listen to his episode 103.

00:20:02.845 --> 00:20:07.085
This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

00:20:07.485 --> 00:20:11.426
Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with
special thanks to Podium Podcast Company.

00:20:11.936 --> 00:20:15.125
Please find us on YouTube and
wherever you get your podcasts.

00:20:15.375 --> 00:20:17.366
Be sure to subscribe and rate us.

00:20:17.576 --> 00:20:20.525
Also follow us on LinkedIn,
TikTok, and Instagram.

00:20:20.756 --> 00:20:24.725
And check out fastersmarter.io for
deep dive videos, English language

00:20:24.725 --> 00:20:26.686
learning content, and our newsletter.

00:20:27.076 --> 00:20:30.176
Please consider joining our Think
Fast, Talk Smart Learning Community

00:20:30.186 --> 00:20:32.716
at fastersmarter.io/learning.

00:20:33.025 --> 00:20:36.836
You'll find video lessons, learning
quests, discussion boards, an AI

00:20:36.845 --> 00:20:39.005
coach, and book club opportunities.

00:20:39.205 --> 00:20:44.005
Again, that's fastersmarter.io/learning
to become part of our Think Fast,

00:20:44.146 --> 00:20:45.895
Talk Smart Learning Community.