328. Ask Matt Anything: Don’t Let Your Communication Fizzle at the Finish

WEBVTT

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How you end something often can
be as important, if not more

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important, than how you start.

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My name's Matt Abrahams, and I
teach Strategic Communication at

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Stanford Graduate School of Business.

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Welcome to this special Ask Matt
Anything inside our learning community

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of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

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I am thrilled to be here with Think
Fast, Talk Smart learning community

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members from around the world and
sharing this with all of our listeners

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and viewers as we come together to think
about important communication skills.

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In a few minutes, I'm going to take
some questions from those joining

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us, and then try to give some
answers that are helpful and useful.

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But before that, I want to talk about how
we end our meetings and presentations.

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Many of us just simply run out of time.

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The most frequent way people end meetings
and presentations is something like this.

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"I guess we're out of time.
Thanks." Not the most efficient

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or effective way to end.

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In fact, ending is really important.

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The way people feel at the end
of an experience colors the way

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they see that entire experience.

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Think of this.

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If you have an amazing holiday, a
great vacation, everything is perfect.

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Yet on the flight home or the drive
home, there's a lot of traffic, things

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are late, your luggage goes missing.

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How do you feel about
the whole experience?

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Often, that will negatively
color how it happened.

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And the same is true in our communication.

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If we end in a way that is off-putting
or goes too long or throws too much

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additional information at people, their
experience of our entire meeting or

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presentation could be more negative.

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So we need to really think
about how do we land the plane?

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How do we end in a way that
is effective and efficient?

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And the efficient part
is really important.

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As soon as people get a sense that
you're ending, they begin to check out.

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Their attention begins to get distracted.

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We need to stay focused.

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I believe the most efficient way to
end a communication is to rely on the

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goal that helped you focus the whole
communication in the first place.

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Now, I am a huge fan of having a goal.

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And to me, a goal has three parts,
information, emotion, and action.

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What do you want the audience to know?

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How do you want them to feel?

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And what do you want them to do?

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If you structure your entire
communication around your goal, you

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should be able to invoke the goal,
speak the goal at the end to wrap up.

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So I might start with gratitude.

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I'm a big fan of gratitude.

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Thank you for your time.

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I hope you're leaving this meeting
or presentation knowing this, feeling

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this way, and willing to do this.

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Now, you might not like
those words, so change it.

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But do the same thing.

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Highlight the information
at the highest level.

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Convey the emotion that you want people
to have, and then give the call to action,

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the specific steps that you're asking for.

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When you do that, you are
more efficient in how you end.

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Because the reality is, as
soon as you signal you're

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ending, actually think of this.

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Think of your own behavior.

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Say you're on a Zoom, a Team, a Meet, and
the meeting organizer, the person running

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the meeting says, "In conclusion," what
is your pattern behavior, your habit?

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Like Pavlov's dogs, you go up to
exit meeting, pull up your calendar

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to see where you need to be next.

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So as soon as somebody signals
ending, we begin checking out

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and moving to the next thing.

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So you have to be efficient.

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Leveraging your goal makes sense.

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If you don't like the goal
as an ending, that's okay.

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Maybe you started with a story and you
want to return to that story at the end.

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I love that kind of book ending where
you start and end in a similar way.

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Still make it very efficient.

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So endings matter.

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In my experience, most people focus
on the beginnings and assume when I

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get to the end, I'll figure it out.

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You need to think about how you end.

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It is as important, if not more
important, than how you start.

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I just came back from helping people
at a conference, and several of the

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people, as I was helping them prepare,
had, let's just say, less efficient and

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effective endings than they could have.

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And we really worked on it.

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So it's top of mind for me and
hopefully will be helpful for you.

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Happy to take questions about
that, how we end, but I'd love

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to take questions about anything.

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This is an Ask Matt Anything, an AMA.

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I do have a few questions that people sent
in in advance who couldn't be here, and

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I'm happy to start with those as well.

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Kenji, I see you have a question.

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Can you just tell us your name, Kenji,
and where you're calling in from?

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Hi, Matt.

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I'm from Seattle.

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I'm glad to join this meeting.

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My question about ending, so I'm gonna
be in a meeting in a week, and then

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I want people to join my community.

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So I will show my QR code.

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Here is our way to join, and then
you have to wait for a while, right?

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And then what should I
say during that time?

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And then I want to add something after.

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Yes, absolutely.

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So in your case, the call to action
is for people to take a picture of

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the QR code, so they can actually go
to the site that you're looking for.

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And the question is, what
do I do when I put that up?

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'Cause we know people are gonna
fumble with their phones and have to

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figure it out and click on the links.

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So I do believe saying something would
be really useful, but make it something

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that's not critically important.

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So that's not the time to give out
the pass code or the discount code

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because that's a lot of cognitive
stress for somebody who's trying to

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take a picture or click on a link.

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But I might reinforce something
that I've already said.

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So you're starting a community.

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Congratulations.

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I've done that as well with the help
of a team, and it's a lot of work.

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I might reinforce the
value of the community.

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So I might say, "Here's a QR code
so you can take advantage of all the

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goodness that we've been talking about.
Go ahead and take a picture, save the

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link. And as you're doing that, just
remember this is a community where you

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can…" And then you summarize some
of the things that you've said before.

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So you're not giving net new information.

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It's harder to take net new information
in when you're being asked to do a task.

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So that would be my advice.

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And good luck on the community.

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Community, I think, is so important,
and we've heard so many great things

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from those of you who are part of
our learning community, so thank you.

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What other questions do we
have from those of you joining?

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Would love to take some questions.

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Excellent.

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Cheri, please, can you tell
us where you're calling from?

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Yeah.

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Hi, Professor.

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I'm from Chicago.

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I'm a grad student, and like Kenji,
I've also started a community on my own.

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And so I did a first event, and it was
so difficult for me, but it was really

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good experience for me to do that.

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And at the end, I kept repeating the same

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sentences because I'm nervous
because it's an online event.

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And because I'm nervous, I just
start repeating the same thing.

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So that is one thing that I have
trouble, ending the sentences.

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Okay, excellent.

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So again, congratulations
on starting a community.

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When we get nervous, we tend to fall
into patterns, and repetition of

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what we're saying is a very common
pattern that people fall into.

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Let me start by saying
repetition is not a bad thing.

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Repetition can actually be very helpful.

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Saying the same thing over and
over again reinforces that point.

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So repeating isn't a bad thing to do.

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Now, I want to just take a tangent there.

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I just said the same thing
four times purposely to

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demonstrate it's not that bad.

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But if it's bothering you and there
are other things you want to say,

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then we need to break that pattern.

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And if what you are repeating is a
declarative sentence, then a great way

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to do that is to switch the modality.

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Ask a question.

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So if you find yourself repeating
the same thing, think to yourself,

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"What's a question I could ask here?"
Even if the question is on the same

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topic, the fact that it is a question
breaks the pattern for you and sounds

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different to the person who's listening.

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So we have to have at least
enough awareness as we're

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communicating to notice, okay,
I've got some repeating here.

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Let me change up.

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So instead of a declaration,
I might make a question.

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If I'm using questions, I might
make an exclamation, right?

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So change the type of communication,
and that will often break the pattern.

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That said, another way is, again,
I'm not a big fan of memorizing.

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I am a huge fan of practicing,
and having a structure can help.

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So if you're using my favorite
structure, what, so what, now what,

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and I find that I'm repeating myself
a lot in the what, I just encourage

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myself to move to the so what.

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So keeping my eye on where I'm taking
my audience through my structure is

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another way to break that pattern.

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And by the way, it builds confidence
either by changing the modality

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or moving to the next step because
you feel like you're in control.

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It's like, "Oh, I'm repeating myself.
I'll just ask a question. Now I feel

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confident because I just took care of
a challenge I saw myself confronting."

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So Cheri, I hope those two bits
of advice can be helpful for you.

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I'm going to read one of the
questions that came in through

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the community's discussion.

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It's a question that comes
from, I think it's Halev.

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And Halev asks, "Matt, I hear you talk
a lot about engagement, how you pull

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people in and engage them. I struggle with
engagement. Are there certain engagement

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techniques that seem to work better than
others?" So Halev, engagement is critical.

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We live in a world where attention
is our most precious commodity.

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Our attention is constantly being
pulled in different directions.

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As a communicator, we want to focus that
attention, but not just in the moment.

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We want to sustain it, and sustained
attention is what I call engagement.

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And there are four
primary ways to do that.

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The first is physical.

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Get people doing something physical.

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When people do something physical,
their brain will follow their body.

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So what does that look like?

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Maybe I take a poll.

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I have people raise their hand.

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Maybe I have people write something down.

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If I'm virtual, I have them
do the reaction button or

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type something into the chat.

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Physical engagement gets people
involved Contrast that to mental

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engagement, cognitive engagement.

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Two major ways to do that.

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One is to ask questions.

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When you ask people questions, the brain
becomes much more active than when you

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just tell them something passively.

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So get more engaged
through asking questions.

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When I teach, I never say, "Today we're
going to cover three topics." I say,

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"Today we're going to answer three
questions." And then the other way to

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do it is to use analogies, comparisons.

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When you use analogies and
comparisons, it helps your audience

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to leverage the way we learn.

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We learn new things by comparing
them to existing things.

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Third is linguistic, language.

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If you can use people's names.

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Have you noticed I've tried
to use people's names today?

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When we hear our names,
we get more involved.

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You can also use what I call
time traveling language.

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I can take all of you into the future.

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I can say, "Picture this. Imagine what
it would be like. What if…?" Those

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phrases get you to see it in your mind's
eye, and that gets you more involved.

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And then finally is any shared experience.

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If I can highlight a shared experience.

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This is where humor comes in.

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If I can make you laugh, you can make
me laugh, that's a shared experience.

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Or if I refer to a keynote or
the all-hands presentation,

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that's a shared experience.

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So physical, mental, linguistic,
shared experience are the

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major ways to engage people.

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So Halev's question is,
what are the most effective?

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And it really varies by person.

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My mother, for example, was
an elementary school teacher.

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Physical engagement is
her name of the game.

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I mean, when she teaches, when she
talks, she gets you doing things,

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and that works really well for her.

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For me, it's more that mental
and the linguistic engagement.

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Most of my presentations, if you
watch them online, will start with

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some kind of time traveling language.

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So everybody has to find their own, but
it's important to know the different

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paints you have on the palette: physical,
mental, linguistic, shared experience.

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I hope that helps, Halev.

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Uh, we've had a couple new people
join us into the community live.

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Thank you for coming and joining today.

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Curious if anybody else has a question.

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I know Cheri has another one.

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Do you have another question, please?

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Yeah.

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Thank you.

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So when I'm talking to people, I
usually tend to talk, like, work stuff.

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So I'll just give some background to it.

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I'm a student assistant in my university,
and other student staff will be talking

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to professional staff, like all kinds
of stuff, and I only talk work stuff.

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So even though I try doing that, it
seems like I'm not able to involve much.

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I'm not really sure why.

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And when I'm talking other
stuff other than work stuff, my

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confidence seems little bit low.

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Thank you.

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Many of us can feel less confident when
we're communicating about things that

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are not our expertise or that are more
chit-chat, small talk, just conversation.

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I want to give you some suggestions
in a couple different ways.

00:12:53.556 --> 00:12:57.795
First and foremost, small talk,
chit-chat, non-work communication

00:12:57.805 --> 00:12:59.156
is actually really important.

00:12:59.196 --> 00:13:02.695
It's how we build relationship,
trust, and connection.

00:13:03.095 --> 00:13:05.575
It requires that we do some work.

00:13:06.066 --> 00:13:09.756
Small talk requires big work,
but it has big payoffs as well.

00:13:10.066 --> 00:13:14.175
So the best thing to do if you
are uncomfortable with that is

00:13:14.175 --> 00:13:17.915
to go in not thinking, "I have to
add a lot of value. I have to say

00:13:17.915 --> 00:13:21.165
something that's really important
and interesting." Your job really is

00:13:21.165 --> 00:13:22.966
just to keep the conversation going.

00:13:23.395 --> 00:13:28.675
So asking questions, making observations,
paraphrasing what others are saying,

00:13:28.985 --> 00:13:33.865
those are all great ways to contribute
to a conversation, to keep it moving

00:13:33.866 --> 00:13:37.485
forward, without having to put
a lot of pressure on yourself to

00:13:37.496 --> 00:13:39.176
add something of tremendous value.

00:13:39.505 --> 00:13:42.385
So is there an observation in the
environment that you can highlight

00:13:42.386 --> 00:13:45.995
like, "Wow, it's colder in here than it
was in the other room," or, "Everybody

00:13:45.996 --> 00:13:50.045
seems to be wearing a similar color."
Is there a question you could ask?

00:13:50.176 --> 00:13:51.265
You know, "That keynote was great.

00:13:51.286 --> 00:13:55.795
What did you take away from it?" By
using these tools or paraphrasing

00:13:55.795 --> 00:13:58.875
what others have said, say, "Hey, that
point about this is really important."

00:13:59.215 --> 00:13:59.855
That's all you've done.

00:13:59.865 --> 00:14:01.105
You've just summarized a point.

00:14:01.475 --> 00:14:05.886
So those are ways of making contributions
and feeling a little more comfortable

00:14:06.235 --> 00:14:07.975
moving the conversation forward.

00:14:07.975 --> 00:14:11.035
And from that, you then build confidence.

00:14:11.566 --> 00:14:15.075
So in the moment, using those
tools can be really helpful.

00:14:15.456 --> 00:14:19.215
Additionally, you can actually
prepare for some of these situations.

00:14:19.225 --> 00:14:22.865
So if you know you're going to be at
an academic event and you know there

00:14:22.865 --> 00:14:26.805
are mixers after or you're gonna be
meeting people during the break, think

00:14:26.805 --> 00:14:31.125
to yourself, "What are one or two topics
or ideas that I would love to bring

00:14:31.125 --> 00:14:35.625
forward?" Not that you've scripted the
conversation, but that you have an idea.

00:14:35.645 --> 00:14:38.125
Again, it's like having a
goal for a presentation.

00:14:38.345 --> 00:14:40.315
It gives you directionality.

00:14:40.824 --> 00:14:44.113
And then finally, you know, what's
really interesting is you can use AI

00:14:44.113 --> 00:14:47.074
and LLMs to practice, to test this.

00:14:47.134 --> 00:14:50.663
There's the chatbot of me
in the learning community.

00:14:50.663 --> 00:14:52.843
Others can get it if they're
not in the learning community.

00:14:53.134 --> 00:14:57.954
And you can actually say, "Hey, Chat
Matt, I would love to work on my small

00:14:57.983 --> 00:15:03.923
talk skills. Let's role play an academic
conference during a break." And I,

00:15:03.943 --> 00:15:06.753
through the chat tool, will actually
talk with you, and you can practice.

00:15:06.763 --> 00:15:09.563
And then you can ask the tool, "How
did that go? What could I have done

00:15:09.564 --> 00:15:11.363
differently?" And it'll give you advice.

00:15:11.373 --> 00:15:15.453
So you can actually practice this
kind of stuff, not to script it,

00:15:15.473 --> 00:15:17.153
but to just feel more comfortable.

00:15:17.163 --> 00:15:18.024
So I hope that helps.

00:15:18.033 --> 00:15:18.473
Thank you.

00:15:18.884 --> 00:15:22.074
We have a question here from Sylvia.

00:15:22.533 --> 00:15:29.343
Sylvia is really curious about,
"When I have some strong feelings and

00:15:29.343 --> 00:15:34.353
emotions about something, how do I
express that without sounding overly

00:15:34.353 --> 00:15:36.363
emotional?" This is hard for me.

00:15:36.363 --> 00:15:40.113
I am a very passionate person, but
sometimes being so passionate gets in

00:15:40.113 --> 00:15:41.674
the way of what I'm passionate about.

00:15:42.113 --> 00:15:45.483
So one thing that really
helps me is to recognize it.

00:15:45.483 --> 00:15:48.444
Say, "Oh, I'm getting really charged
up here," either positively or

00:15:48.444 --> 00:15:51.693
negatively, and naming it, saying,
"I'm getting really excited," or,

00:15:51.693 --> 00:15:53.014
"This is really upsetting me."

00:15:53.403 --> 00:15:59.234
What we know from mindfulness is that
when you name an, an emotion, you

00:15:59.234 --> 00:16:02.814
actually give yourself a little bit
of space between your experience of

00:16:02.823 --> 00:16:06.783
the emotion and the emotion itself,
which allows you to do something.

00:16:07.053 --> 00:16:09.653
So first is to learn to
recognize it and name it.

00:16:09.663 --> 00:16:12.693
So say to yourself, "This is me
being upset. This is me being really

00:16:12.693 --> 00:16:18.523
excited." The second thing to do is
to figure out a way to downregulate.

00:16:18.703 --> 00:16:21.373
So for me, what I do is I tell stories.

00:16:21.424 --> 00:16:24.183
Now, I'm not saying that's the
right way for you, but find some

00:16:24.183 --> 00:16:26.034
communication technique that you can use.

00:16:26.034 --> 00:16:28.743
So when I get really amped
up, I'll tell a story.

00:16:28.743 --> 00:16:33.103
And for me to tell a story, I have to set
the context, I have to give the scene,

00:16:33.104 --> 00:16:34.873
I have to think about what's important.

00:16:35.083 --> 00:16:38.123
And it's not that I'm devaluing
my emotion, but I'm putting

00:16:38.123 --> 00:16:41.763
my emotion to work to help you
understand it through storytelling.

00:16:42.064 --> 00:16:46.023
Rather than just come at you with the
intensity of like, "You should do this

00:16:46.053 --> 00:16:49.943
because it's the best thing ever," tell
a story about it, or give a testimonial

00:16:49.943 --> 00:16:54.423
of somebody else who's had a benefit, or
share some statistics that can add value.

00:16:54.733 --> 00:16:58.223
So Sylvia, when you find yourself in
those positions, first acknowledge it.

00:16:58.224 --> 00:17:03.053
Say, "This is me feeling this way." And
then second, think about how can you

00:17:03.103 --> 00:17:09.113
use a tool like a story, a testimonial,
some data to convey that emotion.

00:17:09.523 --> 00:17:15.073
But in so doing, it will downregulate
your emotion and reduce the intensity

00:17:15.083 --> 00:17:18.933
that your audience or the other person
you're communicating with will see it.

00:17:18.983 --> 00:17:19.673
So thank you.

00:17:20.376 --> 00:17:25.465
Allow me to simply say thank you to all
of you who have joined us live today.

00:17:25.475 --> 00:17:26.646
Thank you for being here.

00:17:26.646 --> 00:17:28.746
Thank you for being part
of the learning community.

00:17:29.106 --> 00:17:32.325
And thank you to those of you listening
who are learning community members

00:17:32.326 --> 00:17:35.095
and those of you in the broader
Think Fast Talk Smart audience.

00:17:35.386 --> 00:17:40.136
Please check out our learning
community at fastersmarter.io/learning.

00:17:40.386 --> 00:17:44.465
The learning community has lots of
cool things, quests for specific topics

00:17:44.466 --> 00:17:49.456
like persuasion, anxiety management,
some video lessons, discussions,

00:17:49.456 --> 00:17:52.675
and lots of other things, including
the AI chatbot I talked about.

00:17:53.186 --> 00:17:54.435
Thank you all for your time.

00:17:54.485 --> 00:17:57.436
Thank you for supporting Think
Fast Talk Smart, and let's all

00:17:57.456 --> 00:17:59.835
together think fast and talk smart.

00:18:01.386 --> 00:18:04.915
Thank you for joining us for
another AMA episode of Think

00:18:04.925 --> 00:18:07.235
Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

00:18:07.596 --> 00:18:10.895
To learn more on a variety of
communication topics, check out our

00:18:10.895 --> 00:18:16.716
extensive back catalog of episodes on your
favorite player or at fastersmarter.io.

00:18:17.285 --> 00:18:22.345
This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

00:18:22.675 --> 00:18:25.065
Our music is from Floyd
Wonder, with special thanks

00:18:25.075 --> 00:18:26.946
to the Podium Podcast Company.

00:18:27.305 --> 00:18:30.646
Please find us on YouTube and
wherever you get your podcasts.

00:18:30.906 --> 00:18:32.926
Be sure to subscribe and rate us.

00:18:33.075 --> 00:18:36.235
Also follow us on LinkedIn,
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00:18:36.735 --> 00:18:40.606
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00:18:40.606 --> 00:18:44.375
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00:18:44.495 --> 00:18:46.596
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00:18:46.855 --> 00:18:50.285
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