300. Matt’s Answers for Better Speaking and Leadership

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Matt Abrahams: Communication
is critical to success in your

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professional and personal lives.

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This idea has served as the
guiding principle of our

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show ever since we started.

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And today, we are thrilled to
be celebrating our 300th episode

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with a special Ask Matt Anything.

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My name is Matt Abrahams, and I
teach Strategic Communication at

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Stanford Graduate School of Business.

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Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.

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It's hard to believe that
this is our 300th episode.

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I want to start by thanking
each and every one of you for

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listening and viewing our show.

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We work really hard to bring you great
content through our show and social

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media, and we truly appreciate your
input in helping us spread the word.

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For this episode, we wanted to
hear from you and help with your

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communication issues and challenges.

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We recorded this live a few weeks back.

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I start with a quick lesson
about a structure I find

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myself using more and more.

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And then we move into questions
from listeners around the globe.

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And as a special treat, I begin with
questions from some of our amazing

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team that help bring you the show.

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So without further ado, let's get started.

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So welcome.

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This is our three hundredth episode.

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We are excited that you are here, and
we are thrilled that you take the time

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to listen to Think Fast, Talk Smart.

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Before I get started taking your
questions, I would love to share

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a new favorite structure of mine.

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You are all very familiar with
the fact that I love structure.

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Structure is nothing more than a logical
way of putting your points forward.

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We have all heard of my favorite
structure, three questions.

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What?

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So what?

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Now what?

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This structure is very useful
for lots of situations.

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You can use it when you're giving
feedback, when you're giving an update,

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when you're introducing yourself.

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This structure is very useful
for educating and informing.

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A new structure that I find myself
relying on a lot as I have to

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articulate a point of view or defend
a position is one I learned from

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a lawyer friend of mine, PREP.

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Point, reason, example, point.

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This is a great structure to use
when you have to put forth an

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idea, when you have to support
something that you're advocating for.

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It works very simply.

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You make a point, you give a
rationale or reason supporting that

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point, give a concrete example.

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We tend to remember concrete examples
far better than high level information.

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And then we return to the point.

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So point, reason, example, point.

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Let me share with you an example that
in the classes I teach at Stanford's

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Business School we like to use as a
way of getting practice with this.

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And I assign my students to
defend one side of this argument.

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So some are for it and
some are against it.

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So the issue is, is a burrito sushi?

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So how would you support that?

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If you wanted to support
it, you might use PREP.

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So let's walk through
this one part at a time.

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The point is, a burrito is
technically a type of sushi.

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The reason, both are fundamentally
seasoned rice fillings tight packly

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together in an edible cylindrical wrapper.

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An example, a burrito wraps meat and
rice in a tortilla, while sushi is

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fish and rice wrapped in seaweed.

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So I would then restate my point.

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Thus, a burrito is
technically a type of sushi.

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And in so doing, I have
made a clear, concise point.

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So I challenge each of you to
think about how you could use PREP.

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I'm going to give all of
you a little homework.

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The other issue that we debate
in my class is, is soup cereal?

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How would you defend that
if you were to use PREP?

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Point, reason, example, point.

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So now you have another structure to
add to your toolkit of structures.

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Goes right next to
what, so what, now what?

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So let's get into some of your
questions and challenges that

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you have in your communication.

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But before I take time to take
your questions, I want to introduce

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you to a few members of our team.

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This is our 300th episode, and we
work really hard to bring you the best

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in careers and communication advice.

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And while you get to see and hear me,
there is an amazing team behind the

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scenes that brings this all to you.

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So I thought it would be really fun to
start our Q&A with some Q&A from the team.

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So it is my honor and privilege to
invite to the screen Katherine Reed.

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Kat is our executive producer
and the brains behind all

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of what you hear and see.

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Kat, how are you doing?

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Katherine Reed: I'm good.

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How are you, Matt?

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Matt Abrahams: I'm doing great.

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I love these live events.

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You have a question?

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I'd love to hear your question.

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Katherine Reed: Yes.

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Very glad to be with you on this
special occasion, and thank you

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to all that were able to join.

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So my question is about word recall.

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I find for myself there are many times
during conversations or discussions

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when I know that there's a specific
word that I want to use, but I can't

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quite seem to retrieve it in the moment.

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Sometimes I'll pause, and I'll give
myself some grace and say something

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like, "What's the word I'm looking
for?" to buy myself a little time.

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So my question is, do you have advice for
improving word recall in those moments or

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strategies for retrieving the right word
when it just feels like it's out of reach?

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Matt Abrahams: Well, I
appreciate that question.

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And as somebody who's getting older,
retrieval of information of any

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kind is, is getting challenging.

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The first thing I would suggest,
Kat, is that as you think about

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this, there really is no right word.

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There are certainly
better words than others.

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So sometimes what makes it hard to
retrieve a word is you have this word

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in mind, and then you say, "I want
to say that right word," and then

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that puts added pressure to yourself.

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So I really like the fact that you
take a pause, take a beat, take

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perhaps a deep breath in that moment.

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And when you take the pressure off
of yourself of saying the right word,

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actually it might come more easily.

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The first thing is to not
make it harder on yourself by

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adding to your anxiety level.

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The next piece has to do with
practice, the way we practice.

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Now, we don't want to memorize.

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We don't want to make sure that every word
is exactly the way we wanted to say it.

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That adds extra pressure.

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But through repetition, those words become
more comfortable and easy to retrieve.

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That's what practice is doing.

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It's actually laying down the neural
pathways that make fluency easier for you.

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So part of it is the
practice and the prep.

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Again, not to memorize, but
just to get familiar with.

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And then the second part is when
you have that missed moment, don't

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put too much pressure on yourself.

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Take a deep breath, and I
hope that word will come.

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And I, Kat, as somebody who talks to
you many times every day, have found

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that you use expert language, and I've
never noticed anything other than that.

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So thank you for your question.

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I appreciate it.

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Well, you got to meet Kat,
our executive producer.

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I'd like for you to meet another one of
our absolutely instrumental and important

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colleagues here at Think Fast Talk Smart.

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I'd love for you to meet Neil McPhedran.

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Neil and I have been working together
almost since the inception of the show.

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Neil, thanks for being with us, and I'd
love to hear what question you have.

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Neil McPhedran: Thanks, Matt.

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Great to join you here.

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So Matt, my question's about a moment as
well, like Kat's, but a different moment.

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So I'm curious about those first
five seconds of public speaking, that

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exact moment when it just feels like
all the eyes suddenly turn to you.

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So in fact, I just had one where one
second I was sitting here listening,

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and next I'm popped up on everyone's
screen, asked this question.

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So whether it's joining a Zoom
presentation, suddenly, boom, you're

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the focus or walking out onto that
stage after being introduced and

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the applause stops, and there's that
instant where for me, it feels like

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I've just jumped into cold water.

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What are your favorite strategies for
handling that surge of adrenaline, like

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settling your nerves and ultimately
starting those first few seconds strongly?

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Matt Abrahams: Thank
you for that question.

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And, and that moment right before
you start, what I call commencing,

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is really powerful for many people
and can be very anxiety fraught.

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So it's something we
really need to think about.

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Let me share a few
things about that moment.

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One, as we practice, as we prepare,
which is really important to do, we can

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think about that moment knowing that
that moment might be difficult for us.

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We can desensitize
ourselves to that moment.

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So we think about what it would be like.

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We can actually visualize the
experience and then think about how

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we might adjust and adapt in advance.

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Having that contingency plan ready to go,
one, can allow us to invoke it when need

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be, and two, just the fact that we know
we have something to do if we get that

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surge of adrenaline in that moment, that
can actually reduce its intensity just

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by knowing that we have something to do.

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So part of it is the preparation.

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When that moment hits, I want
to walk you through three steps.

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When it comes to dealing with
anxiety around speaking, we

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need to think of the ABC's.

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Affect, that's feeling.

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B is for behavior, how
you physiologically feel.

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And then C is for cognition.

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And we can do a management
technique for each.

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So let's start with the A. That emotion
you feel might be dread, might be fear.

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In that moment, just remind yourself
that it's normal and natural.

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Most people, and I mean, like eighty-five
percent of people, have that surge

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of anxiety that you're talking about.

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So recognizing that it's
normal and natural can help.

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And when you do that, you acknowledge it.

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You actually give yourself a little
bit of space and agency, so you can

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do something in that moment A great
thing to do is to remind yourself that

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this is normal and natural to feel
anxious, and it actually is a sign that

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this is important to you and valuable.

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And you can get excited about something
that's important and valuable.

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As you well know, Neil, a frequent
guest of our show is Alison Wood Brooks.

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She did some groundbreaking research
quite a while back now that said

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if you reframe your anxiety as
excitement, not only do you feel

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better, but you actually perform better.

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So in that moment, the affect piece,
acknowledge, "Hey, this is me feeling

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nervous. Makes sense I'm nervous. Most
people would be, and that's a sign that

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I should be excited about this." In terms
of behavior in that moment, five seconds,

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10 seconds before you start, best thing
you can do is take a deep belly breath.

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It's going to slow your heart rate down.

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It's going to calm down those nerves.

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Make sure your exhale is
twice as long as your inhale.

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It is all in the exhale
that the magic happens.

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And then finally, from a cognitive point
of view, often in those few moments

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before we start speaking, we say a
lot of negative things to ourselves.

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"I'm not prepared.

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I should have done more.

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Why am I doing this?

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Why isn't this other person doing
it?" Instead, let's replace that

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with something positive, a positive
affirmation, a positive mantra.

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Doesn't have to be, "I'm the best
speaker ever." Could be something simple.

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This is what I do before I speak,
and I get nervous, and I still do

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get nervous in some situations.

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I simply say, "I have value to bring.
I have something of value to the

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person or people that I'm speaking
to." So at first you prepare.

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You think about, "What will I do
if I have that experience?" And

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then ABC, the affective part.

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It's normal and natural, typical for
somebody to get nervous in this situation.

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B, do some deep breathing.

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That's for the behavioral piece.

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And C for the cognition, reframe
it and see it through the lens of

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some kind of affirmation or mantra.

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If you do those things,
you'll be better off.

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Thanks, Neil, and I'm glad
everybody got to meet you and Kat.

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So let's see.

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We've got some questions coming in.

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First question's from Ethiopia.

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Wow.

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Hello, hello.

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Uh, I talk a lot about tell the
time, don't build the clock.

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Yet on the other hand, I will often
say listeners tend to remember

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specifics more than generalities.

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So I find those two
concepts contradictory.

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How can you make sure that
you're concise and clear and

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at the same time give detail?

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This is a great question because
it is a contradiction, right?

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It is a little bit confusing.

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How can we be concise but
detailed at the same time?

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So this is a trade-off, and there
are a number of trade-offs that we

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have to make whenever we communicate.

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We want to be specific and detailed, but
we also want to be clear and concise.

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So the question then becomes
how much detail do I give?

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And it really depends on your
audience and the emotional

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impact you're trying to have.

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If I am trying to really motivate,
impress upon you how important this is,

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I might spend a little bit more time
giving detail because in that emotional

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experience you'll have of my detail,
you are focusing in a way that you

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don't if I'm just relaying facts, if
I'm just walking through, let's say,

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financial data or some technical data
where there isn't as much emotion.

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It really depends on what your goal is
in terms of the engagement you want.

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If you want engagement that's deep and
perhaps emotional, over-index, spend

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a little more time giving detail,
which means you won't be as concise.

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If you're giving details that are
devoid or, or don't have a lot of

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emotions, then I might really fixate
on being concise and clear to allow me

00:13:14.692 --> 00:13:18.012
to get to a point in my communication
where I do want to bring emotion.

00:13:18.021 --> 00:13:21.891
So I really appreciate the deep
thinking that you had there in

00:13:21.891 --> 00:13:23.671
terms of the advice that I give.

00:13:24.091 --> 00:13:30.332
It is a tension between concision and
depth, and you have to find your best way

00:13:30.332 --> 00:13:33.561
of navigating that, and, and I believe
it has to do with who you're speaking

00:13:33.562 --> 00:13:35.711
to and the emotion you want to engage.

00:13:35.981 --> 00:13:37.191
Thank you so much for that question.

00:13:37.201 --> 00:13:38.051
Really insightful.

00:13:38.051 --> 00:13:38.861
I appreciate it.

00:13:39.201 --> 00:13:40.791
All right, our next question.

00:13:41.041 --> 00:13:46.581
With a growing reliance on AI for
summarization, email drafts, slides,

00:13:46.981 --> 00:13:50.382
how do you ensure our cognitive
and linguistic skills remain sharp?

00:13:50.422 --> 00:13:51.001
Oh, wow.

00:13:51.481 --> 00:13:53.932
This is something that I have
been spending a lot of my

00:13:53.932 --> 00:13:55.332
time recently thinking about.

00:13:55.841 --> 00:13:59.081
AI is fundamentally changing
the way we communicate.

00:13:59.151 --> 00:14:05.351
And in fact, I believe that AI is
actually making face-to-face, spontaneous,

00:14:05.371 --> 00:14:10.006
in-the-moment communication even more
important And it's more important because

00:14:10.016 --> 00:14:11.666
that's how we authentically connect.

00:14:12.176 --> 00:14:18.806
In theory, AI can polish and in some cases
perfect our communication, but it makes

00:14:18.806 --> 00:14:24.036
it more restrictive and blunts its emotion
and reduces some of its connection.

00:14:24.576 --> 00:14:30.436
Part of that is that we offload our
cognitive effort to the AI tool.

00:14:30.465 --> 00:14:32.156
We don't have to think as much.

00:14:32.485 --> 00:14:36.405
And communication and critical
thinking are intimately related.

00:14:36.735 --> 00:14:39.305
You can't communicate well without
critically thinking, and you

00:14:39.305 --> 00:14:41.866
can't critically think without
being able to communicate well.

00:14:42.145 --> 00:14:46.615
And as we offload some of that
critical thinking burden, we

00:14:46.675 --> 00:14:50.045
ultimately, I fear, lessen our skills.

00:14:50.296 --> 00:14:51.825
And we're starting to see this.

00:14:51.826 --> 00:14:56.225
Some recent research came out that
says people are speaking less.

00:14:56.245 --> 00:14:57.475
We're just saying less.

00:14:57.796 --> 00:15:02.795
Part of what AI does is it increases
concision, so we, we speak less.

00:15:03.026 --> 00:15:07.556
People's language and words are
starting to become compressed.

00:15:07.556 --> 00:15:10.385
In other words, we're sounding
more the same because we're

00:15:10.385 --> 00:15:11.976
relying on the same tools.

00:15:12.366 --> 00:15:15.875
That's all just proof points
to say that AI does have an

00:15:15.875 --> 00:15:17.355
impact on our communication.

00:15:17.615 --> 00:15:21.996
So how do we make sure to leverage AI
for the many benefits it can bring to us

00:15:22.235 --> 00:15:24.126
and not suffer some of the consequences?

00:15:24.615 --> 00:15:27.485
Well, it has to do with when
we use it and how we use it.

00:15:27.905 --> 00:15:33.435
I think AI is a great tool to help you
think through your audience, to use it as

00:15:33.435 --> 00:15:37.456
a thought partner in terms of different
ways of arguing and structuring content.

00:15:37.785 --> 00:15:42.315
But do not rely on it to make all
the decisions for you and to create

00:15:42.346 --> 00:15:45.835
the content instead of you actually
thinking through it yourself.

00:15:46.165 --> 00:15:50.905
So use it as you would, let's say, a
partner, or if you're a manager, as you

00:15:50.905 --> 00:15:55.915
might use an intern, somebody to help
you, but not to do the work for you,

00:15:55.915 --> 00:16:00.465
because if we outsource it all the way,
we actually lose some of the most precious

00:16:00.816 --> 00:16:02.565
communication skills that we have.

00:16:02.875 --> 00:16:04.426
So thank you for that insightful question.

00:16:04.426 --> 00:16:09.715
This is an issue that I have been thinking
about a lot, and you highlight both the

00:16:09.745 --> 00:16:12.356
value of AI and some of the downsides.

00:16:12.982 --> 00:16:13.852
Let's see.

00:16:14.342 --> 00:16:18.272
In my work, I find that storytelling is
important for sharing information with

00:16:18.272 --> 00:16:20.232
others rather than academic teaching.

00:16:20.622 --> 00:16:22.852
Do you have any takeaways
for storytelling?

00:16:23.251 --> 00:16:25.691
Oh, storytelling is so important.

00:16:26.112 --> 00:16:28.782
First, human beings are
storytelling machines.

00:16:28.791 --> 00:16:30.962
We are wired for story.

00:16:31.262 --> 00:16:35.491
Long before we had the written
word, our species communicated

00:16:35.491 --> 00:16:37.561
information through stories.

00:16:37.571 --> 00:16:40.132
Think about folklore, legends.

00:16:40.391 --> 00:16:42.111
We're wired for story.

00:16:42.391 --> 00:16:46.001
So if we can tap into that, we
can be much more successful.

00:16:46.361 --> 00:16:51.211
Stories engage and connect, so much
so that when I tell a story, my

00:16:51.212 --> 00:16:53.872
brainwaves and your brainwaves sync up.

00:16:53.881 --> 00:16:55.582
It's called cognitive entrainment.

00:16:55.841 --> 00:16:59.882
And in some cases, when you look
at the neurological feedback, you

00:16:59.882 --> 00:17:03.991
can't tell who was telling the
story versus who was receiving it.

00:17:04.391 --> 00:17:08.071
Now the question becomes: how do we
learn to become good storytellers?

00:17:08.531 --> 00:17:12.551
I hope this show, Think Fast,
Talk Smart, provides some of the

00:17:12.551 --> 00:17:14.742
very important tools to do that.

00:17:14.742 --> 00:17:17.441
We've done several
episodes on storytelling.

00:17:17.442 --> 00:17:18.751
We did one with Matthew Dicks.

00:17:18.751 --> 00:17:23.121
We did a whole miniseries on
storytelling from people who have

00:17:23.131 --> 00:17:25.402
non-traditional storytelling jobs.

00:17:25.631 --> 00:17:27.841
Think of a lawyer, think of a magician.

00:17:28.061 --> 00:17:31.721
Lots of different situations
where people tell stories, and

00:17:31.721 --> 00:17:33.571
we really try to dissect them.

00:17:34.001 --> 00:17:34.971
It is a skill.

00:17:35.061 --> 00:17:38.361
It is a skill you can learn, and
everybody has to develop their

00:17:38.361 --> 00:17:40.432
own style around storytelling.

00:17:40.802 --> 00:17:45.121
A great way to get started is
to think about stories in your

00:17:45.122 --> 00:17:46.542
life, things that have happened.

00:17:47.101 --> 00:17:51.941
Create a catalog of stories that
you have experienced or that you

00:17:51.942 --> 00:17:54.831
have seen, and begin to refine them.

00:17:55.122 --> 00:18:01.132
Think about, how can I add detail,
emotion, make it relatable to people?

00:18:01.401 --> 00:18:03.912
How can I start it in
a way that's engaging?

00:18:04.311 --> 00:18:05.451
So it is a process.

00:18:05.482 --> 00:18:07.111
It's a process you have to practice.

00:18:07.341 --> 00:18:09.852
Another great way to get good
at storytelling is just listen

00:18:09.852 --> 00:18:11.211
to other people's stories.

00:18:11.281 --> 00:18:14.472
Find people that you really
admire who tell good stories, and

00:18:14.482 --> 00:18:16.241
begin to dissect what do they do.

00:18:16.561 --> 00:18:19.062
Do they start at the beginning, or
do they start in the middle and then

00:18:19.062 --> 00:18:20.322
bring you back to the beginning?

00:18:20.501 --> 00:18:22.321
Do they use a lot of descriptive words?

00:18:22.321 --> 00:18:23.792
Do they lead with emotion?

00:18:24.291 --> 00:18:28.802
All of these are really interesting
tools that you can deploy

00:18:29.031 --> 00:18:30.332
to be a better storyteller.

00:18:30.361 --> 00:18:33.501
I encourage all of you to work
on your storytelling skills.

00:18:33.692 --> 00:18:37.791
And please, please consider Think Fast,
Talk Smart as a good resource for that.

00:18:38.041 --> 00:18:42.461
If you go to our website,
fastersmarter.io, and you go to the

00:18:42.462 --> 00:18:46.941
Resources page, you'll actually see
some playlists that talk through

00:18:46.942 --> 00:18:48.961
stories and how to tell good stories.

00:18:48.971 --> 00:18:50.271
So thank you for that question.

00:18:51.510 --> 00:18:52.230
Let's see.

00:18:52.590 --> 00:18:55.050
From San Diego, one of my favorite places.

00:18:55.230 --> 00:18:58.080
How do you know when to use
lingo to relate with your

00:18:58.080 --> 00:18:59.950
audience and to avoid jargon?

00:19:00.149 --> 00:19:03.350
Yeah, this is a really, again,
a tricky tension that we have.

00:19:03.790 --> 00:19:09.979
Sometimes using specific terminology,
lingo as you say, can actually

00:19:09.980 --> 00:19:11.690
demonstrate your competence.

00:19:11.909 --> 00:19:16.810
The problem is, if you use too much
of it, or you use that terminology

00:19:16.849 --> 00:19:20.929
with others who aren't in the know
or don't have the experience you do,

00:19:21.269 --> 00:19:26.239
then it tips into jargon, and jargon
is wording that it can be distancing.

00:19:26.549 --> 00:19:30.050
One of my colleagues, he's been
on the show twice, Huggy Rao.

00:19:30.050 --> 00:19:32.539
Huggy likes to talk about jargon monoxide.

00:19:33.006 --> 00:19:34.906
It suffocates communication.

00:19:35.316 --> 00:19:41.016
So we want to avoid using lingo, technical
speak, acronyms just for the use of them.

00:19:41.016 --> 00:19:42.276
They should serve a purpose.

00:19:42.276 --> 00:19:47.006
So if the purpose is to demonstrate
competence, to connect with your

00:19:47.006 --> 00:19:50.396
audience on a deep level because
they know the terms well, then I

00:19:50.396 --> 00:19:52.236
would suggest using those terms.

00:19:52.565 --> 00:19:56.325
But if you think someone in the
audience might not be aware or they

00:19:56.326 --> 00:19:59.996
don't have the depth of knowledge,
at the very least, define your terms.

00:19:59.996 --> 00:20:02.296
Maybe you show them on a
slide, maybe you spell them out

00:20:02.296 --> 00:20:03.485
the first time you use them.

00:20:03.795 --> 00:20:09.156
There is more reputational risk,
I believe, in using jargon,

00:20:09.156 --> 00:20:13.416
terminology people don't know, than
there is reputational advantage to

00:20:13.416 --> 00:20:15.336
using lingo that people do know.

00:20:15.756 --> 00:20:20.245
I think you are set farther back by
using jargon than you are put farther

00:20:20.245 --> 00:20:21.995
ahead by using appropriate lingo.

00:20:22.506 --> 00:20:25.805
So I'd like to introduce you to a
few more of our team members who

00:20:25.805 --> 00:20:30.765
work tirelessly behind the scenes
to help bring Think Fast, Talk Smart

00:20:30.815 --> 00:20:33.095
to you twice a week every week.

00:20:33.385 --> 00:20:35.805
Kylé, I'd love to have
you join me on screen.

00:20:36.135 --> 00:20:40.026
Kylé helps with so many facets of how
we make our show work for all of you.

00:20:40.355 --> 00:20:41.155
Welcome, Kylé.

00:20:41.175 --> 00:20:42.425
I know you've got a question for me.

00:20:42.425 --> 00:20:43.145
Would love to hear it.

00:20:43.395 --> 00:20:43.985
Kylé McPhedran: Hi, Matt.

00:20:44.006 --> 00:20:45.166
Nice to see you here.

00:20:45.445 --> 00:20:49.696
I have a question about
high emotion situations.

00:20:49.965 --> 00:20:54.215
As a leader, I sometimes feel very
nervous before difficult one-on-one

00:20:54.215 --> 00:20:58.266
conversations with employees, especially
when I need to ask a hard question

00:20:58.555 --> 00:21:02.755
or give constructive feedback where
they could potentially get emotional.

00:21:03.105 --> 00:21:08.566
How do I stay calm before and during
the moment, make sure I actually deliver

00:21:08.566 --> 00:21:13.836
my point while still addressing the
situation clearly, but showing care?

00:21:14.235 --> 00:21:16.845
Matt Abrahams: Well, so Kylé, just
so you all know, Kylé is a very

00:21:16.855 --> 00:21:20.435
empathetic and kind person, and
that's demonstrated in your question.

00:21:20.445 --> 00:21:24.265
Because often as a leader, we have
to give constructive feedback.

00:21:24.296 --> 00:21:28.105
We have to give direction that
might be challenging for those

00:21:28.135 --> 00:21:29.355
that are reporting to us.

00:21:29.665 --> 00:21:33.095
And it's really appropriate
to be concerned about their

00:21:33.095 --> 00:21:34.825
emotions, but also your emotions.

00:21:35.285 --> 00:21:39.186
So if this is a circumstance where
you actually get to plan it out in

00:21:39.186 --> 00:21:43.156
advance, then I would be thinking
through not just the messaging.

00:21:43.245 --> 00:21:46.255
One of the many structures that
we cover, what, so what now, what

00:21:46.256 --> 00:21:47.716
is a great way to give feedback.

00:21:47.955 --> 00:21:49.015
What is the feedback?

00:21:49.015 --> 00:21:50.366
So what is why it's important.

00:21:50.405 --> 00:21:53.055
Now what is what you'd like
the person to do differently.

00:21:53.056 --> 00:21:57.385
So thinking through the structure, maybe
even practicing vocalizing it can help.

00:21:57.806 --> 00:22:01.306
But also thinking through the
emotions that you might feel in that

00:22:01.306 --> 00:22:05.746
moment, and really think through
what this might be like for you.

00:22:05.806 --> 00:22:10.356
Anxiety, maybe there's a little
bit of frustration with the person.

00:22:10.646 --> 00:22:14.856
By cataloging and thinking about
those emotions first, that can help

00:22:14.876 --> 00:22:16.685
you come up with a contingency plan.

00:22:17.156 --> 00:22:21.246
And then remind yourself, your
job as a leader, as a manager,

00:22:21.255 --> 00:22:25.205
is to help your team succeed and
to help your employees succeed.

00:22:25.325 --> 00:22:28.755
And part of that is actually
giving constructive feedback.

00:22:28.755 --> 00:22:32.495
So taking the time to plan the
message and to plan for the

00:22:32.545 --> 00:22:34.075
emotion can be really helpful.

00:22:34.506 --> 00:22:35.565
Kylé McPhedran: That's really helpful.

00:22:35.596 --> 00:22:36.455
Thank you very much.

00:22:36.576 --> 00:22:37.156
Matt Abrahams: Very good.

00:22:37.435 --> 00:22:40.955
All right, let me now take one
more question from one of our

00:22:41.015 --> 00:22:42.686
team that helps bring the show.

00:22:42.885 --> 00:22:44.415
I'd like to bring Greg in.

00:22:44.416 --> 00:22:48.616
Greg is so helpful, particularly on
all the technical aspects of our show.

00:22:48.865 --> 00:22:50.006
Greg, good to see you.

00:22:50.025 --> 00:22:50.865
Thanks for being here.

00:22:50.865 --> 00:22:52.036
I'd love to hear your question.

00:22:52.466 --> 00:22:53.635
Gregg Oldring: Wonderful to see you, too.

00:22:53.635 --> 00:22:55.135
Thanks, Matt, and hello, listeners.

00:22:55.466 --> 00:22:58.115
Okay, my question is this, and
I think the listeners will have

00:22:58.115 --> 00:23:02.605
noticed this, listening to this
show, that you have a superpower,

00:23:03.015 --> 00:23:05.546
and that superpower is summarizing.

00:23:05.846 --> 00:23:07.795
You have an incredible ability to do it.

00:23:07.825 --> 00:23:10.355
You listen to somebody speak,
and you repeat back what

00:23:10.355 --> 00:23:12.296
they've said in your own words.

00:23:12.416 --> 00:23:16.256
And what that does for us as
listeners of the show, I think

00:23:16.276 --> 00:23:19.806
it clarifies what's been said and
helps us to understand and remember.

00:23:20.245 --> 00:23:23.405
And having worked with you now for
a couple of years, what it does for

00:23:23.416 --> 00:23:25.176
me personally is it shows empathy.

00:23:25.475 --> 00:23:29.525
It shows that you are listening to what
I'm saying, and so it feels good as

00:23:29.535 --> 00:23:31.725
the person receiving that summary back.

00:23:31.725 --> 00:23:37.626
And so my question to you is this: What
is going through your mind right now as

00:23:37.635 --> 00:23:42.085
you are listening to my long, rambling,
uh, preamble to my question, so that

00:23:42.085 --> 00:23:43.565
you can summarize what I have said?

00:23:44.174 --> 00:23:46.084
Matt Abrahams: So you're really
asking about paraphrasing

00:23:46.233 --> 00:23:47.664
and how I go about doing it.

00:23:47.874 --> 00:23:52.494
As I listen to our guests, as I listen to
you, as I will be listening and reading

00:23:52.494 --> 00:23:57.274
the questions from others today, I am
always asking myself, what's the bottom

00:23:57.274 --> 00:24:03.833
line of what the person is saying, and why
and how is it relevant, in the case of the

00:24:03.834 --> 00:24:06.293
interviews on the show, to the audience?

00:24:06.654 --> 00:24:10.604
As you're speaking, I'm listening
intently, and I'm constantly thinking

00:24:10.604 --> 00:24:12.143
to myself, what's the bottom line?

00:24:12.154 --> 00:24:14.844
What's the key point the person is making?

00:24:15.283 --> 00:24:19.113
I might get it wrong, and that's where
paraphrasing actually helps because

00:24:19.124 --> 00:24:24.144
not only does it validate you, it says,
"I've heard you," but it also allows

00:24:24.144 --> 00:24:26.174
me to validate that I got it right.

00:24:26.214 --> 00:24:28.623
Because if I miss it,
you could correct me.

00:24:28.863 --> 00:24:33.774
Paraphrasing not only is a tool for
connection, it's a fidelity check.

00:24:33.774 --> 00:24:38.413
Fidelity is the accuracy and clarity
of the transmission of the information.

00:24:38.843 --> 00:24:42.554
It's a wonderful tool to connect, and
it's a wonderful tool to make sure

00:24:42.554 --> 00:24:44.004
I'm hearing what people are saying.

00:24:44.283 --> 00:24:45.943
And I encourage all of you to practice.

00:24:45.944 --> 00:24:49.103
At the end of every one of our
episodes, I would love for you to

00:24:49.184 --> 00:24:53.173
take a moment and say, what was the
bottom line key takeaway from that

00:24:53.174 --> 00:24:55.153
episode for me, you as the listener?

00:24:55.483 --> 00:24:57.164
And then we hope you put it into practice.

00:24:57.164 --> 00:25:02.023
But by training that skill, you can
really help yourself connect and make sure

00:25:02.023 --> 00:25:03.744
you're accurately hearing information.

00:25:04.034 --> 00:25:04.714
How'd I do, Greg?

00:25:04.714 --> 00:25:05.773
Did I paraphrase that well?

00:25:06.004 --> 00:25:07.013
Gregg Oldring: You paraphrased it well.

00:25:07.153 --> 00:25:09.623
Matt Abrahams: Greg, you do amazing
work, as does the rest of the team.

00:25:09.633 --> 00:25:11.033
Thank you for the question.

00:25:11.553 --> 00:25:13.743
Let's take one final question, please.

00:25:14.638 --> 00:25:18.898
Please share tips for beginning
speakers to seem unplanned in using

00:25:18.898 --> 00:25:22.828
gestures while having actually
planned and rehearsed ahead.

00:25:23.197 --> 00:25:25.518
Oh, well, I've got a
little teaser for you.

00:25:25.897 --> 00:25:30.017
Coming up actually right around the
time this episode, our three hundredth

00:25:30.018 --> 00:25:34.537
episode airs, I am interviewing
Vanessa Van Edwards, and Vanessa is

00:25:34.538 --> 00:25:38.807
an amazing researcher as well as a
presenter on communication issues.

00:25:38.808 --> 00:25:40.757
And we talked exactly about this issue.

00:25:40.967 --> 00:25:44.047
You'll hear the dialogue and discussion
there, but I'll give you a summary here.

00:25:44.308 --> 00:25:45.608
Gestures are really important.

00:25:45.788 --> 00:25:51.287
Gestures are, for the audience, a way
that we can engage in a multimodal way.

00:25:51.748 --> 00:25:56.397
Our brains are primarily designed
to take in the world visually.

00:25:56.908 --> 00:26:00.278
There are more parts of the
human brain dedicated to vision,

00:26:00.287 --> 00:26:02.607
seeing, than to the other senses.

00:26:02.998 --> 00:26:06.798
So while I'm speaking, you have an
area in your brain that's verbal,

00:26:06.807 --> 00:26:08.407
but there's a lot more that's visual.

00:26:08.408 --> 00:26:12.818
So when I'm gesturing in a consistent
way, I'm actually reinforcing what I'm

00:26:12.818 --> 00:26:16.047
saying because you're seeing it and
you're hearing it, and I'm activating

00:26:16.057 --> 00:26:17.607
a lot of brain regions for doing it.

00:26:18.097 --> 00:26:23.387
Now, for me as a communicator, the
one, in this case, speaking, gestures

00:26:23.417 --> 00:26:26.127
actually offload cognitive load.

00:26:26.187 --> 00:26:31.037
So when I gesture, I actually make
it easier for myself to think.

00:26:31.397 --> 00:26:34.858
So if my gestures are consistent
with what I'm saying, it

00:26:34.858 --> 00:26:36.547
actually helps me be clearer.

00:26:36.547 --> 00:26:39.057
It increases my processing fluency.

00:26:39.457 --> 00:26:42.667
And for you, it makes it easier
to understand because I'm

00:26:42.748 --> 00:26:44.338
engaging multiple brain systems.

00:26:44.697 --> 00:26:46.248
So gesturing is really important.

00:26:46.904 --> 00:26:49.774
How do we practice it though
so we don't look robotic?

00:26:50.194 --> 00:26:53.084
First, we do not want to script gestures.

00:26:53.384 --> 00:26:58.483
I do not want to start a speech in a very
scripted way because it looks scripted, it

00:26:58.484 --> 00:27:01.164
looks disingenuous, it looks inauthentic.

00:27:01.783 --> 00:27:03.214
So how do we practice?

00:27:03.554 --> 00:27:07.183
For many people who are just beginning
to work on gestures, my biggest bit of

00:27:07.183 --> 00:27:09.663
advice is play charades as you speak.

00:27:09.663 --> 00:27:12.514
Charades is a game where we
don't use words to describe

00:27:12.514 --> 00:27:13.844
things, we use our gestures.

00:27:14.234 --> 00:27:16.334
Use what are known as
descriptive gestures.

00:27:16.343 --> 00:27:19.183
So if I'm standing up giving a,
a sales pitch and say, "This is a

00:27:19.193 --> 00:27:21.013
big opportunity," I gesture big.

00:27:21.013 --> 00:27:24.074
I wouldn't say, "This is a big
opportunity," and gesture small.

00:27:24.344 --> 00:27:27.764
If I were saying, "Profits will
likely rise," I do a gesture

00:27:27.764 --> 00:27:29.423
that demonstrates rising.

00:27:29.833 --> 00:27:33.293
You're mimicking or mirroring
the words in your gestures.

00:27:33.293 --> 00:27:35.453
And if you're not comfortable with
gesturing or you want to learn

00:27:35.473 --> 00:27:39.683
to gesture more, starting with
descriptive gestures is easiest.

00:27:40.054 --> 00:27:43.214
Then you graduate to what are
called emphatic gestures, and

00:27:43.214 --> 00:27:46.253
if you've ever watched me speak,
you see I use a lot of these.

00:27:46.253 --> 00:27:49.673
Emphatic gestures are
gestures that add emphasis.

00:27:49.993 --> 00:27:52.963
They don't have an immediate
correlate to what I'm saying.

00:27:53.493 --> 00:27:57.303
A former student of mine actually
introduced a technique to me for

00:27:57.303 --> 00:28:02.593
practicing this as he was preparing
for a presentation he had in my class.

00:28:02.853 --> 00:28:07.134
What he would do is he would audio
record himself, do, like, a voice memo

00:28:07.504 --> 00:28:10.614
of him presenting his presentation,
not memorized, not reading it.

00:28:10.623 --> 00:28:12.353
He would just talk it
through and record it.

00:28:12.763 --> 00:28:17.264
And then he would put earbuds in, he
would stand up, and he would listen to

00:28:17.264 --> 00:28:22.793
himself saying the words, and he would
just walk around practicing the gestures

00:28:22.794 --> 00:28:27.843
that he might say as those words were
delivered, not to script them, but

00:28:27.843 --> 00:28:29.743
to give him the cognitive bandwidth.

00:28:29.754 --> 00:28:31.813
He didn't have to think of
what to say because he was just

00:28:31.813 --> 00:28:33.554
listening to himself say it.

00:28:33.813 --> 00:28:36.633
He could actually think about his
gestures and say, "You know, at this

00:28:36.644 --> 00:28:39.863
point, I should probably do a really
big gesture. At this point, maybe I

00:28:39.864 --> 00:28:42.134
should move because it's a transition."

00:28:42.434 --> 00:28:48.193
He was freeing up his brain to think
about how he wanted to gesture because he

00:28:48.193 --> 00:28:52.103
didn't need to use all of that cognitive
bandwidth to think of what he was saying.

00:28:52.464 --> 00:28:54.353
So this is a great way to practice.

00:28:54.363 --> 00:28:56.063
It's an intermediate step.

00:28:56.423 --> 00:29:01.803
You absolutely need to practice speaking
and gesturing, but before that, you

00:29:01.804 --> 00:29:05.663
can do this technique of recording it,
listening to it while you're presenting.

00:29:05.873 --> 00:29:08.413
So those are all ways to
hone and develop gesturing.

00:29:08.423 --> 00:29:11.743
Start with descriptive gestures, know
that gestures are helping you and

00:29:11.743 --> 00:29:15.973
your audience, and record yourself and
practice listening to that recording.

00:29:17.334 --> 00:29:21.393
With that, I will simply say, first,
thank you for joining me for this.

00:29:21.413 --> 00:29:23.363
I thoroughly enjoyed the questions.

00:29:23.433 --> 00:29:25.363
I hope you found value in the answers.

00:29:28.014 --> 00:29:30.623
So there you have it, our 300th episode.

00:29:31.014 --> 00:29:33.474
Thank you again for
listening and your support.

00:29:33.813 --> 00:29:37.404
Do me a huge favor and be
sure to subscribe and rate us.

00:29:37.483 --> 00:29:40.153
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00:29:40.494 --> 00:29:44.154
If you like celebration episodes,
please take a listen to our 250th

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episode all about managing conflict.

00:29:47.083 --> 00:29:50.414
This episode was produced by
Katherine Reed, Shelby Merriweather,

00:29:50.553 --> 00:29:53.363
Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

00:29:53.674 --> 00:29:57.883
Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with
special thanks to Podium Podcast Company.

00:29:58.333 --> 00:30:01.143
Please find us on YouTube and
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00:30:01.723 --> 00:30:05.983
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