286. Driven to Succeed: Turn Doubt Into Your Competitive Advantage

WEBVTT

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Matt Abrahams: Drive and clarity can
really help you land your communication.

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I'm Matt Abrahams and I teach
Strategic Communication at Stanford

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Graduate School of Business.

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Welcome to Think Fast
Talk Smart, the podcast.

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Today I look forward to
speaking with Susie Wolff.

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Susie is a highly respected former
professional race car driver.

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Susie now serves as the managing
director of F1 Academy, an all female

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racing series dedicated to developing
the next generation of female talent.

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Her new book is
appropriately called Driven.

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Unlike most of our episodes
where I interview our guest

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solo, today I am really excited
to be joined by Tiggy Valen.

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Tiggy is an F1 enthusiast who hosts
the Paddock Project, which brings a

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fresh female perspective to Formula 1.

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Tiggy, and I got to know each
other at Stanford GSB, where Tiggy

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was one of my former students.

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Well, welcome Tiggy.

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Thank you for helping me today.

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Tiggy Valen: I'm so excited to be here.

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Matt Abrahams: Thank
you, and welcome, Susie.

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We are both super excited
for our conversation.

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Susie Wolff: I'm equally excited.

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Thank you for having me.

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Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

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Shall we get started?

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Susie Wolff: Let's go for it.

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Matt Abrahams: To begin, I'd love to know,
and I'm sure our listeners would, where

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did your interest in motorsport come from?

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Susie Wolff: Well, I think you could
say it was in my blood because my

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mom met my dad when she went to buy
her first motorbike from his shop.

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I had a little motorbike
from the age of 2.

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I got a go-kart for my eighth birthday
and I was always that very competitive

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little girl that hated losing.

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I had a real love of speeds and
looking back, I was really lucky

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that I had an older brother who
was only 18 months older than me.

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And my parents never really
differentiated between son and

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daughter, so I never once felt I was
doing anything unusual for a girl.

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And of course in my sport, we all wear a
helmet when we're racing, so the gender

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or the driver isn't always visible.

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So it set me off on a path.

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And at the age of 8, 9, 10, you're
not thinking about the future,

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you're not thinking about career.

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You're simply doing what you love
in the moment and how grateful

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I am that I found that thing I
love doing at such a young age.

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Tiggy Valen: It's incredible.

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Yeah, it sounds like it's
been your entire life.

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I do wanna fast forward several
years though, because I think when

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you joined Mercedes for your DTM
test, and I'm sure in many rooms that

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you've walked into since, you have
been the only woman amongst many men.

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And so I guess I'm curious what
advice you have for someone who may

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be underrepresented for some reason,
age, gender, race, whatever it may

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be, trying to assert their voice and
their expertise in a room where their

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contributions are perhaps doubted
or not respected as much as others.

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Susie Wolff: I think it was over time that
I realized, because I was very often the

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only woman in a situation, whether that be
the garage or in a meeting room or in the

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simulator, and I realized quite early on
that performance is what counts in sports.

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And what I love about being in
sport is it's very objective.

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It's black and white.

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You're either fast or slow.

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There's no subjectivity to it.

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So, I always knew if I delivered
performance I had to get respect.

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And interestingly, when you walk
into a room, you can quite often

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feel, it's not blatant skepticism,
but you have an undercurrent of

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whether I'm taken seriously in this
setting or, okay, I've got my work

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to do to win these people over.

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And I quite often was never
the loudest voice in the room.

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Never the one that spoke the most often.

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But I made sure when I did speak
that I really had something to say.

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And I knew I also had to believe in myself
in many situations because if you want

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others to believe in you, you need to give
off those vibes that you at least have

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confidence in your own abilities before
you can expect others to believe in you.

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Matt Abrahams: So being aware of the
room as you walk into it and then

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being judicious in what you say.

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The confidence in ourselves is
really critical, and a lot of people

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might not have that confidence.

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I'm curious, were there some things
you did to help remind you that

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you belong in those rooms and
your voice really does matter?

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How did you build some of that confidence?

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Because I think it's critical
in all communication.

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Susie Wolff: I'm really lucky that
I'm the character that if someone

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tells me I can't, it makes me even
more determined to show them I can.

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And I'm really thankful for that
character trait because there have

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been so many times throughout my career
that there were so many doubters,

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but that lights a fire inside of me
and it makes me even more determined.

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But in a way, there's no bitterness
or regret if I don't manage, it's

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more the biggest battle is with me.

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I want to achieve, I want to be
the best racing driver I can be.

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I want to be the best leader I can be,
so I hold myself to high standards.

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Matt Abrahams: It's really that
self-motivation and having a clear purpose

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and goal that really, I'm hearing, is what
drives some of that confidence in you.

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You successfully transitioned from the
driver's seat to become a team principal

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and eventually CEO of Venturi Racing.

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You said that when you were a
driver, you focused entirely on

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yourself, but as a leader you had to
focus on the group, the collective.

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Many folks listening in are in
positions of transitioning from

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individual contributors to being
team leads, managers, and what

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advice and guidance do you have for
helping people make that transition?

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What were some of the skills you had to
develop as you moved from focusing on

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your own contribution to the broader team?

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Susie Wolff: It's a really good question,
and it was definitely a transition.

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When you're a sports
person, you're so selfish.

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It's all about you because it
all lands on your shoulders.

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In a sport like racing, Formula 1,
it really is a collective effort

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because no matter how good you are
as a driver, if your car isn't quick

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enough, you're not going to win a race.

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So I think being in that environment,
you learn quite early on, okay,

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I need the people around me.

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So you need to bring people
on the journey with you.

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They need to live through the successes,
but also the failures, so that camaraderie

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is instilled in you from a very young age
because you wanna get to the best team,

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you wanna have the best people around
you, and ultimately, I learned quite early

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on surround yourself with great people.

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When I moved and transitioned into leading
a Formula team, I looked at my whole

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network that I'd met over the many years
and immediately looked, okay, who do I

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want to surround myself with, who are
best in class in each of their areas?

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And in our sports, quite often the
quickest way to gain performance is

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simply to poach someone from another
team that's performing because

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they bring all their know-how.

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Surround yourself with great
people and set realistic goals.

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You know, you need to be quite honest
in your beliefs of what you can achieve.

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Because if I'd gone to those people
I was trying to hire and say, listen,

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we can be world champions in 2 years,
they would've laughed in my face.

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We didn't have the organization,
the know how, the investment in

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the background ,to turn it around
quickly, but I very much said to them,

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listen, I know what I need to do.

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Come on this journey with me.

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I manage their expectations, but I very
much made them come and feel part of the

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transformation and part of the journey.

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Tiggy Valen: That old adage sounds so true
of it takes a village and it's equally

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important in the successes, but also the
failures, and maybe even more so in the

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failures because you do have to have a
little bit more persuasion, convincing,

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honesty to get the right people on board.

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But hopefully it's a self-fulfilling
prophecy where you get the people

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who believe in the mission and you
can work towards success together.

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One thing I love about Formula 1, F1
Academy, is that you all operate across

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dozens of countries and cultures, which
means you're constantly working with

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people who have very different styles
of communication, cultural expectations.

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I'm curious how that
experience has been for you.

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Susie Wolff: I definitely had to
navigate that, but I also realized

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it does come down to the individuals,
not just certain cultures, but the

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individuals within that culture, and you
start to learn through your key people,

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okay, how do they like to communicate?

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Do they need me to ask them how their
family is before we get down to business

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or can we get straight into business?

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And I think you learn how
certain characters are and then

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you navigate your way through.

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But my preferred line of communication
is always get to it, be efficient,

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and let's not waste any time.

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Matt Abrahams: Being cognizant of what
works for you, I think is the starting

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point for communicating with others.

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And then the second thing I heard you
say, which is really important, is

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be open to input and insight into how
others like to be communicated and then

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make adjustments if it makes sense.

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As managing director of the F1
Academy, you were tasked with

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creating a competitive pathway
for young female drivers.

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A lot of what we talk about on the
show is persuasion and influence.

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When you were building this movement and
generating a call to action, that was a

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long-term vision, how do you get people
to join you, especially when they're

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traditionally focused on the here and
now, the immediate short-term results.

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How did you manage to get people
to buy into your long-term vision?

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Susie Wolff: Well, I was really lucky
that I was in an industry which realized

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that the climate was changing, in a way.

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We as F1, have 42% of the global
fan base now being female.

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So, I only really took this role at
F1 Academy because I knew this was our

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chance, and I wasn't even sure if we
would ever see this chance in my lifetime,

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but I think that the sport changed.

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There was a massive investment in women's
sport at the time, and I think those

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elements really made me believe, okay, the
timing is right for something to shift.

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But when I arrived F1 Academy and had
been set up to be something much smaller,

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and of course I came in with this
huge vision, we're gonna race with F1.

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We're gonna centralize all the
commercial assets in-house.

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I'm gonna get the F1 teams on board.

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But I was at the beginning just taking
my time to build a very clear strategy.

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I'm someone that doesn't try
to run before I can walk.

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So I said to Stefano, the CEO of Formula
1, I need 6 weeks to really figure out

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this plan, and then I'll come to you and
I'll show you what I think we need to do.

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And I really took my time then to really
speak to the best in the business,

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the people whose opinions I rated.

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What do you think we can do?

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What's been done in the
past that hasn't worked?

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So I got as much intel from as many
different people within the sport,

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different perspectives from mine,
and some were not nice to hear.

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Women will never make it to Formula
1, you're wasting your time.

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But I had to hear those inputs.

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I had to know why they
didn't think it was possible.

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'Cause that was just as important
for me then those who said, it's

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absolutely important on the sport.

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This is what we need to do.

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This is going to get more female talent.

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And then it was about building a team.

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But the initial months were,
I like to say firefighting.

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We were trying to come up with
solutions to scenarios that had

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never come up in the sport before.

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You know, in the F1 teams, they've never
given their name and liveries to anything

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outside of the cars they've built.

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And suddenly there was little me
asking them, I want you to do it for

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a female racing driver in F1 Academy.

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But I think when they understood why this
could have a positive impact in the sport,

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how it could generate return on investment
for them, they could see the reasons why.

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And then I turned around and said, and
I'm not going to oblige you to stay.

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If you give me your trust, I'll
prove to you that this can work.

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And if it doesn't, you can
walk away at any moment.

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I won't oblige you and you shouldn't look
at us and feel like it's a charity case.

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And then slowly but surely, we managed
to build a platform, which really showed

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that it had its place in this sport,
that created value, that had a financial

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sustainability as a backbone, and I
think that's what allowed me over then

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2 or 3 seasons to build that credibility
and to show people that, well, F1

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Academy can be positively impactful.

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Matt Abrahams: You started, it
sounds like, by really understanding

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the opportunity, having done some
research into what made sense.

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It didn't hurt that there were
some things going on in the broader

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change in how people approach
sport, especially around women.

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And then you set up a strategy,
you set time to really think

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about it strategically.

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And what really resonated with me is you
took time to talk to people, not just

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people who had similar ideas and opinions,
but people who had very disparate opinions

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and that helped you form the plan.

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And through that you were able to put
together a very persuasive message.

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And I love also that you had metrics.

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You said, here's what success is gonna
look like and hold me to the success.

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And congratulations, by the way, on
the success that you've had with that.

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There are a lot of lessons
in there for anybody who's

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trying to implement something.

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Have a vision, make sure it's grounded
in reality, come up with a plan

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that's informed by not just people
who support what you're saying, and

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derive metrics and commit to those
metrics, and from there, move forward.

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In leadership, in any situation,
but especially in elite sport, you

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often are put in a situation where
you have to deliver hard truths.

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Maybe a driver isn't performing well,
a sponsor isn't properly aligned.

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How do you prepare yourself for those
conversations and what advice do you have

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for delivering constructive feedback?

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My sense is something, part of
it is being very direct, but I'm

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curious the other pieces for you.

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Susie Wolff: Well, my
husband calls it tough.

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Love that feedback on where you need
to improve, what you can do better,

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and I won't lie, it hurts a little bit.

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I do like and appreciate also the
areas and the weaknesses that, that

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he pulls up, the criticisms, because
as much as it stings in that first

00:13:01.694 --> 00:13:03.795
moment, it helps you be better.

00:13:04.185 --> 00:13:07.935
And I'm a big believer in getting
comfortable in the uncomfortable.

00:13:08.175 --> 00:13:12.405
Put yourself in those situations where
you are under pressure or you are getting

00:13:12.405 --> 00:13:13.840
feedback that isn't what you want to hear.

00:13:14.535 --> 00:13:16.965
And don't get too overly
emotional about it.

00:13:16.965 --> 00:13:20.055
Try and take a step back and
say, okay, why have they formed

00:13:20.055 --> 00:13:22.935
that opinion that I could do that
better or that isn't good enough?

00:13:23.205 --> 00:13:26.895
And how can I actually make
sure that I do do it better?

00:13:26.895 --> 00:13:29.235
Or it can be seen in a different light.

00:13:29.275 --> 00:13:32.355
And there are sometimes instances
where I say, well, I disagree

00:13:32.595 --> 00:13:35.835
because this is why I do it and this
is why it's turned out this way.

00:13:36.015 --> 00:13:39.345
But I do think in those moments you
have to just take the initial sting

00:13:39.345 --> 00:13:42.825
that is criticism, but then see it
for the positive because it does

00:13:42.825 --> 00:13:44.915
help you improve in the long term.

00:13:44.915 --> 00:13:48.875
But I also, when I'm delivering
criticism to my team or sometimes to

00:13:48.875 --> 00:13:52.895
the drivers, I do always try and put
myself in the other person's shoes

00:13:53.135 --> 00:13:55.115
so I could see their perspective.

00:13:55.115 --> 00:13:57.064
And that's one of the
things I love about my role.

00:13:57.064 --> 00:13:59.495
I've been on the journey that
these young women have been on.

00:13:59.705 --> 00:14:03.965
I know how tough it is and I know how
much they sacrifice to try and make it

00:14:03.965 --> 00:14:05.765
as a driver and not all of them will.

00:14:05.765 --> 00:14:08.885
And there's certain times where it
does break my heart when I have to

00:14:08.885 --> 00:14:11.314
tell a driver, well you're out 'cause
the performance wasn't there, because

00:14:11.735 --> 00:14:13.265
I've had someone tell that to me.

00:14:13.680 --> 00:14:16.950
And I know how tough it can be,
but I think the one thing I've

00:14:16.950 --> 00:14:19.770
definitely learned is don't
shy away from confrontation.

00:14:19.950 --> 00:14:21.990
Don't shy away from the
difficult discussions.

00:14:21.990 --> 00:14:25.380
Don't try and get other people to
do them for you because you need

00:14:25.380 --> 00:14:27.240
to have the difficult discussions.

00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:32.060
And as long as you can do it in a human
way, which has a bit of empathy built

00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:34.350
in, you need to deliver the hard truth.

00:14:34.350 --> 00:14:37.950
And quite often, those hard truths
are the moments in your life where you

00:14:38.040 --> 00:14:41.880
either have to dig deeper and come back
stronger or slightly change your pathway.

00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:43.950
You mentioned the word failure.

00:14:44.190 --> 00:14:48.510
I had so many more failures in my life
than I did successes, so many more.

00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:51.300
But it was in those moments of
failure where I had to decide,

00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:54.960
okay, am I coming back from this
or am I taking a different route?

00:14:55.470 --> 00:15:00.120
And it's in those moments that I think
you really have to stay true to yourself.

00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:03.900
Have you got it in you to keep going
or are you going to pick another path?

00:15:04.380 --> 00:15:05.010
Tiggy Valen: I love that.

00:15:05.370 --> 00:15:06.570
I'm hearing two things.

00:15:06.570 --> 00:15:10.320
One, to be able to deliver hard
feedback, you first have to be

00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:12.090
comfortable with receiving it yourself.

00:15:12.090 --> 00:15:15.810
You have to get over the initial
sting of it and take that and

00:15:15.810 --> 00:15:19.140
say, this is a defining moment of
whether I become something better

00:15:19.140 --> 00:15:21.390
or something different, or I don't.

00:15:21.390 --> 00:15:23.490
And then second is that empathy piece.

00:15:23.490 --> 00:15:26.910
So when you are delivering hard feedback,
you really have to think about who

00:15:26.910 --> 00:15:30.510
you're delivering that message to
and make sure that you're thinking

00:15:30.510 --> 00:15:32.520
through what it's like in their shoes.

00:15:32.925 --> 00:15:37.785
I wanna go back to one of the things
you said, Susie, because you mentioned

00:15:37.785 --> 00:15:41.295
you learned to become comfortable
in the, with the uncomfortable.

00:15:41.295 --> 00:15:45.585
And first of all, congratulations
on your book because in the letter

00:15:45.585 --> 00:15:49.545
to your younger self at the end of
Driven, you mentioned that, and I would

00:15:49.545 --> 00:15:51.525
love to dig into that a little more.

00:15:51.525 --> 00:15:55.845
When you speak to whether it's young
women today, your drivers or whoever

00:15:55.850 --> 00:16:00.900
else, how would you instruct them
to embrace that discomfort and also

00:16:00.900 --> 00:16:05.699
communicate their value and kind of sit
with that and make something out of it?

00:16:06.300 --> 00:16:09.599
Susie Wolff: I think that getting
comfortable and the uncomfortable is

00:16:09.719 --> 00:16:12.180
also closely linked to resilience.

00:16:12.420 --> 00:16:15.000
When you're really put on the
spot where you're under pressure,

00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:16.050
where you're uncomfortable.

00:16:17.385 --> 00:16:20.895
That is where you need to find that
inner strength within you to say,

00:16:20.895 --> 00:16:25.665
okay, I can overcome this, or I can
prepare myself in such a way that

00:16:25.665 --> 00:16:28.395
I have the tools to overcome this.

00:16:28.635 --> 00:16:32.564
And in high pressure environments, which
was a lot of my career and even to this

00:16:32.564 --> 00:16:37.725
day, I always say to myself, the best I
can do is be the best version of myself,

00:16:38.115 --> 00:16:42.435
and if that's good enough to succeed I
can be really proud, if it's not good

00:16:42.435 --> 00:16:46.905
enough, well, I gave it my best shot,
and I'm okay with not succeeding, with

00:16:46.905 --> 00:16:51.225
failing, but it's putting yourself in
the best possible position for success.

00:16:51.225 --> 00:16:54.435
So even when it gets uncomfortable,
what are you doing to try

00:16:54.435 --> 00:16:55.515
and make it then comfortable?

00:16:55.515 --> 00:16:57.855
What are you doing to put yourself
in a position where you can get

00:16:57.855 --> 00:17:00.285
yourself back into a comfort zone?

00:17:00.675 --> 00:17:02.435
How are you learning new things?

00:17:02.915 --> 00:17:06.089
And those are the moments where I
think you grow the most as a person.

00:17:06.390 --> 00:17:10.319
And I remember when I took the role
in the Formula E team, there was

00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.079
a couple of moments in the first
six weeks where I thought, what

00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:14.400
have I caught myself into here?

00:17:14.760 --> 00:17:19.260
This is so much, and I don't have
the tools to manage all of this.

00:17:19.815 --> 00:17:21.435
The same thing with F1 Academy.

00:17:21.555 --> 00:17:24.045
I remember one of the first race
weekend, my phone was blowing up from

00:17:24.045 --> 00:17:27.315
the team principles in F1 for everyone
telling me what's wrong, what needs

00:17:27.315 --> 00:17:31.545
to be better, why it's not good, and
I said, God, there's so much to do.

00:17:31.815 --> 00:17:35.565
But then again, that little person in
me that loves the challenge, that has

00:17:35.565 --> 00:17:37.215
the resilience kicked in and said, okay.

00:17:37.785 --> 00:17:40.095
Let's work through this step by step.

00:17:40.215 --> 00:17:41.205
We are gonna manage this.

00:17:41.205 --> 00:17:42.225
Let's break it down.

00:17:42.375 --> 00:17:45.075
What can we do as small steps that
will then, you know, look like

00:17:45.075 --> 00:17:46.695
bigger steps in the mid to long term?

00:17:46.695 --> 00:17:51.735
So I think it really is that preparation
of putting yourself in the best position

00:17:51.765 --> 00:17:56.445
to succeed in any given moments, no
matter how uncomfortable you are, and then

00:17:56.445 --> 00:18:00.495
not allowing yourself to be overwhelmed
by just how big the challenge is.

00:18:01.185 --> 00:18:05.235
Matt Abrahams: Really that approach
of gonna give it my best, and

00:18:05.295 --> 00:18:08.115
even if it doesn't go the way I
want, knowing that I give it my

00:18:08.115 --> 00:18:10.095
best is something I can live with.

00:18:10.635 --> 00:18:12.825
And then breaking it down into the pieces.

00:18:12.825 --> 00:18:16.635
So while it might be very uncomfortable
and overwhelming, there is a path

00:18:16.635 --> 00:18:18.225
forward, and I appreciate that.

00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:23.160
Susie, before we end, as you know,
I like to ask three questions.

00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:26.940
One I'm gonna make up just for you, and
then the other two I've been asking people

00:18:26.940 --> 00:18:28.170
as long as we've been doing the show.

00:18:28.170 --> 00:18:28.830
Are you up for that?

00:18:29.070 --> 00:18:30.629
Susie Wolff: I'm up for it,
you're gonna put me on the spot.

00:18:30.870 --> 00:18:34.379
Matt Abrahams: So one of the things
I really enjoyed about your book

00:18:34.379 --> 00:18:36.570
was how honest and open you were.

00:18:36.629 --> 00:18:38.879
You demonstrated a lot of vulnerability.

00:18:38.940 --> 00:18:44.230
I'm curious to get your thoughts on the
role vulnerability plays in leadership.

00:18:44.260 --> 00:18:49.600
Is it important for leaders to be
vulnerable, to share failures and

00:18:49.690 --> 00:18:51.159
negative thoughts that they've had?

00:18:51.159 --> 00:18:53.679
Is that an important piece
to being an effective leader?

00:18:54.074 --> 00:18:57.195
Susie Wolff: For me it is because I
think especially in the role that I am

00:18:57.195 --> 00:19:00.824
in where I'm having a lot of interactions
with the next generation and I'm

00:19:00.824 --> 00:19:04.395
trying to inspire them, I'm trying to
create a new pathway within what is

00:19:04.395 --> 00:19:08.294
the very male dominated environment,
I want them to learn from my mistakes.

00:19:08.355 --> 00:19:12.105
I want them to realize how tough my
journey was so that their journey might

00:19:12.105 --> 00:19:14.595
be a little bit less tough than mine was.

00:19:14.895 --> 00:19:17.264
And of course, my husband
works in the same industry.

00:19:17.264 --> 00:19:20.879
And he's someone that when they
were dominant in Formula 1 had huge

00:19:20.879 --> 00:19:25.320
visibility and he chose to take that
moment when he had a very powerful voice

00:19:25.320 --> 00:19:28.860
to say, well, I also have struggles,
you know, with my own mental health.

00:19:28.860 --> 00:19:33.240
And he felt it was important to
humanize because quite often people

00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:36.510
look from a distance and they think
we are having this incredible life.

00:19:36.810 --> 00:19:40.060
And don't get me wrong, there's so many
things I'm very grateful for in my life.

00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:43.455
But in the book, it was important
for me to show that it hasn't

00:19:43.455 --> 00:19:45.085
all been a bed of roses.

00:19:45.135 --> 00:19:48.735
There's been so many tough moments
in the journey and I hope a lot of

00:19:48.735 --> 00:19:52.725
women will resonate and men with
tough moments in their journey and

00:19:52.725 --> 00:19:54.165
how you have to pick yourself back up.

00:19:54.705 --> 00:19:59.145
But we all have our own struggles
and I think my style of leadership is

00:19:59.145 --> 00:20:03.225
certainly to be quite open in those
moments so that people can resonate.

00:20:03.225 --> 00:20:07.695
And I think that honesty shows people
that you're also being authentic.

00:20:08.355 --> 00:20:11.505
Matt Abrahams: There certainly is an
authenticity to that, and thank you for

00:20:11.565 --> 00:20:14.835
sharing your perspective and bringing
in the issue with your husband as well.

00:20:15.435 --> 00:20:20.175
Question number two, who is a
communicator that you admire and why?

00:20:20.775 --> 00:20:25.065
Susie Wolff: Well, I've mentioned his name
quite often, but definitely my husband.

00:20:25.635 --> 00:20:27.885
I remember at the very beginning
when we came together and he

00:20:27.885 --> 00:20:29.775
said, let's not play the games.

00:20:30.405 --> 00:20:32.505
I'm going to call you when
I have time to call you.

00:20:32.505 --> 00:20:34.785
I'm gonna text when I have time, and
if I don't, it's simply because I

00:20:34.785 --> 00:20:39.135
don't have time in that given working
day, but I'm not going to play games.

00:20:39.495 --> 00:20:43.425
And that clarity and openness at
the very beginning, it set the

00:20:43.425 --> 00:20:44.835
tone for our whole relationship.

00:20:45.195 --> 00:20:47.925
And he's someone that says, okay,
we're not going to go to sleep

00:20:47.925 --> 00:20:51.600
if we've had a disagreement or
we're angry with each other, and

00:20:51.600 --> 00:20:53.220
he's very good at communicating.

00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:57.840
He's very good at taking the time to sit
and be in the moment and to really listen.

00:20:58.050 --> 00:21:01.409
Phones away, not that distraction
of feeling you're talking to someone

00:21:01.409 --> 00:21:03.510
who's got 10 other things going on.

00:21:03.810 --> 00:21:07.440
And I do think it's one of the things
in our marriage, which is such a

00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:10.379
strength at the core, that we are
very open and honest with each other.

00:21:10.379 --> 00:21:14.100
We just communicate really well,
and I definitely learned so much

00:21:14.490 --> 00:21:16.110
in how to be a better communicator.

00:21:16.814 --> 00:21:20.564
Matt Abrahams: That directness and that
focus make a lot of sense for all of

00:21:20.564 --> 00:21:24.645
us, and thanks for giving us a little
insight into that relationship you have.

00:21:25.034 --> 00:21:26.115
Final question.

00:21:26.564 --> 00:21:31.665
What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

00:21:32.145 --> 00:21:34.965
Susie Wolff: Well, I think I've
mentioned them a lot already.

00:21:34.965 --> 00:21:37.784
I think the first one for
me is the authenticity.

00:21:38.235 --> 00:21:39.165
Be who you are.

00:21:39.254 --> 00:21:42.764
Don't try and be something you
think you need to be or what you

00:21:42.764 --> 00:21:44.475
think others expect you to be.

00:21:45.105 --> 00:21:47.985
You are you, and the easiest
thing you can be is you.

00:21:48.375 --> 00:21:52.035
And for me, it's also the honesty,
that honesty in communicating,

00:21:52.035 --> 00:21:55.095
but also putting your hand up when
you've made a mistake or where you

00:21:55.095 --> 00:21:57.075
think you could do something better.

00:21:57.495 --> 00:22:01.305
And the last one for me is something
that I've really realized moving into the

00:22:01.305 --> 00:22:03.715
business side of the sport's is clarity.

00:22:03.985 --> 00:22:07.995
So much words get spoken,
meetings get done, and you

00:22:07.995 --> 00:22:10.515
actually can narrow it all down.

00:22:10.935 --> 00:22:12.765
I always say to my team,
well, give me clarity.

00:22:12.765 --> 00:22:14.205
What do you actually mean?

00:22:14.385 --> 00:22:15.825
What do we want to take from this meeting?

00:22:15.825 --> 00:22:17.085
What are the steps forward?

00:22:17.085 --> 00:22:21.105
Because sometimes there's just so much
talking, so many meetings, and we need to

00:22:21.105 --> 00:22:24.975
be really focused and just with clarity,
communicate with each other, and it

00:22:24.975 --> 00:22:26.565
just makes it so much more efficient.

00:22:27.165 --> 00:22:29.865
Matt Abrahams: Well, you were certainly
clear in the three that you gave us,

00:22:29.985 --> 00:22:32.445
authenticity, honesty, and clarity.

00:22:33.225 --> 00:22:35.865
Susie, this has been
a lovely conversation.

00:22:35.925 --> 00:22:39.824
So many valuable insights that we can all
take for our personal lives, and it's just

00:22:39.824 --> 00:22:43.304
fascinating to, your life is fascinating
and thank you for sharing that.

00:22:43.635 --> 00:22:45.794
Tiggy, thank you so much
for joining and helping.

00:22:45.794 --> 00:22:48.735
I know you are passionate about
the sport and I appreciate the work

00:22:48.735 --> 00:22:51.090
you do to help bring light to it.

00:22:51.705 --> 00:22:53.784
And congratulations on the book, Susie.

00:22:53.805 --> 00:22:58.815
Driven is a very personal and yet
very insightful book on many levels.

00:22:58.815 --> 00:22:59.865
Thank you and all the best.

00:23:00.285 --> 00:23:01.305
Susie Wolff: Thank you both so much.

00:23:01.545 --> 00:23:02.055
Tiggy Valen: Thank you.

00:23:03.525 --> 00:23:05.445
Matt Abrahams: Thank you for
joining us for another episode of

00:23:05.445 --> 00:23:07.335
Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

00:23:07.545 --> 00:23:10.425
To learn more about empowering
women in sport, please listen to

00:23:10.455 --> 00:23:12.435
episode 235 with Chiney Ogwumike.

00:23:13.335 --> 00:23:17.655
This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abraham.

00:23:18.074 --> 00:23:19.665
Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

00:23:19.725 --> 00:23:22.000
With special thanks to the
Podium Podcast Company.

00:23:22.965 --> 00:23:25.455
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