303. On Point, On Brand: Why Honest Communication Always Lands

WEBVTT

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Matt Abrahams: Empathy and transparency
are essential for effective

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communication in person or virtually.

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My name's Matt Abrahams, and I
teach Strategic Communication at

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Stanford Graduate School of Business.

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Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.

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Today, I look forward to
speaking with Kim Storin.

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Kim is Zoom's chief marketing
officer who oversees brand,

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marketing, and communication.

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She's a seasoned executive with
a background spanning startups

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to Fortune 50 companies.

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Well, welcome, Kim.

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I am excited for our conversation.

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Kim Storin: Me too.

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Thanks for having me here.

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Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

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Shall we get started?

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Kim Storin: Let's do it.

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Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

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Well, I have a long
relationship with Zoom.

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Back in around 2015 at Stanford's
Business School, I initiated a class

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on virtual communication, and the deans
at the time were like, "Oh, go ahead

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and teach the class, but, you know,
we're not sure how important that is."

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Ironically, it became very important.

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And Eric Yuan, your CEO,
was very kind at that time.

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We had a different tool in place
at the business school, and I had

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learned of Zoom and saw its potential.

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And because Eric was affiliated with
the school, he's a graduate of one of

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our executive education programs, I
reached out to him, and he was very kind.

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And in fact, the very first use of Zoom
at Stanford was as a result of Eric

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giving us free access for the class.

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And ever since then, he and I have
been close, and Zoom has been something

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that's been important on the campus.

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So just wanted to give a little bit
of that background, and I'm glad

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that he introduced me to you to
have you here today, so thank you.

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So let's get started.

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Clearly, COVID and the pandemic
had a huge impact on Zoom.

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Uh, without exaggeration, I think
it's fair to say that Zoom saved

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countless businesses and allowed
for many parts of our everyday

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lives to continue and function.

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Looking back, what are you and
the company most proud of, and are

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there things that you might have
done differently with hindsight?

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Kim Storin: You know, I wasn't
here at Zoom at the time.

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I've only been here for about a year now.

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I did watch what Zoom did, and I really
admired how Zoom took the challenge

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head-on and how Eric led with such
empathy for not just customers, because

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Zoom was an enterprise business at
that point, but for what the world

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was going through at that time.

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And, you know, for people, not just
organizations, but also individuals,

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families, students that were, were
looking for ways to, to connect, to

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learn, to work during that period, right?

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You really saw how Zoom became such a
critical part of how we functioned and

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how we communicated during that time.

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But what's interesting is because
of how Eric and the leadership

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team were so empathetic, put that
freemium model in place right off

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the bat, helped turn on every school,
every company, every individual.

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And so as a result of that,
we became a household name.

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We became a verb, right?

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We're the Kleenex of software.

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And we have nearly 100% brand awareness.

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But as the business has grown, that
brand awareness has actually made it

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harder for us to shift perception.

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So we've expanded into areas much
further than just video conferencing,

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yet because of the ubiquity of the brand,
we've still been pigeonholed in a way.

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And people don't recognize the breadth
and depth of our product portfolio and

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the problems that we solve for customers.

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And so that, you know, ubiquity,
that becoming a verb during COVID,

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really makes it challenging as a
marketing and communications leader.

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Matt Abrahams: Yeah, I, I can imagine.

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It's like an actor who gets
typecasted as a specific role.

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And one of the things that I think is
impressive about Zoom and many other

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companies during times of difficulty
and tragedy, leading with empathy

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and doing what's right, even if it's
may or may not benefit the business

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right away, I, I think is important.

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I think Zoom did that very well.

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So talk to me a little bit about how do
you try to change perceptions and expand

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people's very pigeonholed view of you
all, but, uh, this happens in a lot of

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industries and a lot of businesses, where
people see you as one thing, and in our

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communication we need to expand that.

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Are there certain things that you do
or are trying to help expand that view?

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Kim Storin: Absolutely.

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And, you know, I would say it's
two-pronged, if you will, right?

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There is one aspect that is more
scientific and one that's more of the art.

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And so when you think about the scientific
elements, people now are spending 50 or

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80%, I should say, of their buying journey
where they don't wanna talk to a brand.

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They wanna do the research on their own.

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Buyers are now starting their buying
cycle on a large language model.

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So those two dynamics mean that
we have to be really scientific

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of how are we marketing ourselves?

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How are we ensuring that we are
strategically positioning ourselves?

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That's the scientific part, right?

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All of the elements of, like, how are
you showing up in that funnel when

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people don't wanna be talking to you,
they wanna be learning about you.

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The second piece is more of the art,
which is much more oriented around that

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brand-to-demand connection and ensuring
that you're showing up at all the right

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places where your customers care, that
you're putting content out there that

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answers their pain points, that helps
them progress through that preference

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formation journey, that we're leveraging
in-person events and are experiential, and

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we have the right marketing mix overall.

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So that's a little bit
more of the art side.

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And ultimately, it takes the
combination of both the science and

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the art in order to, to change that
perception, and it really starts

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with anchoring on a narrative.

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And consistency drives
preference at the end of the day.

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So even as you're balancing art
and science, like, you have to

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be constantly coming back to that
core narrative that really defines

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the company and that North Star.

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Matt Abrahams: Well, you're
certainly singing my tune when it

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comes to storytelling narrative.

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Super important.

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And we focus a lot of that in the classes
I teach on Strategic Communication.

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And consistency is critical.

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The idea of transitioning from
awareness to preference building,

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that's really fundamental.

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And in large part, as you
mentioned, a result of how AI

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is impacting how people buy.

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And then the brand and demand and being
just where people are and making sure they

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understand the pain point that you solve.

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These are lessons that all of us
can take in the businesses we run.

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But it's an evolved form
of marketing, right?

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This is a very different world for sure.

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Zoom has scaled rapidly.

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You're in charge of both
external and internal comms.

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How do you maintain a cohesive
company culture with a rapidly

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expanding organization, both
domestically and internationally?

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How do you keep that culture alive?

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Kim Storin: We believe that culture
starts at the top, and we take it very

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seriously, and it is something that
Eric and our executive staff think

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about and talk about all the time.

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We also have a very flat organization,
and that helps ensure that communications

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are consistent, that there's not
layers and layers to drive that

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message through the organization.

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And ultimately, we really do reward
speed, curiosity, learning, and care.

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And those cultural attributes are the
core of how we act, the decisions that

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we make, and how we treat each other
and how we treat our communities.

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And we really take that seriously.

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So we are driving those conversations
with managers on a regular basis.

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We bring those messages to a biweekly
town hall meeting with all employees,

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which I've never in my career seen
such a drive and commitment to

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transparent communications in that way.

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People are used to seeing a
quarterly all-hands meeting, not a

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every other week all-hands meeting.

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And so I think it's really a testament
to our executive team's core commitment

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to our culture and our values and
to transparent communications.

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Matt Abrahams: So it sounds to
me several things there that

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all of us could benefit from.

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One, having a clear distillation
of what your values are, speed,

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learning, care, and those serve as
that guiding light, and then providing

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opportunity to be transparent.

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And the frequency of, in your
case, all-hands meetings.

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And then having a flatter
organizational structure that

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then focuses on communication
and consistency helps as well.

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And those are really important
ingredients, I think, to helping

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a culture flourish and take root
in the midst of rapid growth.

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So thank you.

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Tools like Zoom have made
much of our communication more

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transactional and scheduled.

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This can absolutely drive
efficiency, but it can work against

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serendipity and spontaneity.

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What are your thoughts on what is gained
and lost in this virtual modality?

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Kim Storin: So I agree.

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I think the water cooler moments and those
happen stance, those happen chance moments

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that are like IRL are so critical to
professional development and work agility.

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And so I think ultimately we
are giving that up a little bit.

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But on the other hand, what we've
done is enable communication and

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collaboration with the world and
across your organization and across

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your customers and your partners at a
scale that was previously unattainable.

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And so I think the ubiquity of Zoom has
really opened up the world, both how

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you communicate within your organization
and how you communicate outside your

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organization in a way that just wasn't,
we, we would never have been able to see

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this at scale without the technology.

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So I think what's really critical
is that we do both, right?

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There's value in those in real life
moments, in those water cooler moments.

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We all have the stories of where
something happened as a result and,

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you know, drove our professional
development, our career growth.

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That was just a happen chance moment.

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And so we want to ensure that we're like
still enabling those moments, but there

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is so much beneficial from the virtual
standpoint and just the global mindset,

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being able to talk and communicate and
collaborate with your peers in your,

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with your team in India while you sit in
San Jose, like that's a huge opportunity

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for global communications at scale.

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So I think it is ultimately finding
that balance and ensuring that the

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technology is ultimately helping where
it can, driving context, ensuring

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that we've got different ways of
communicating, helping understand,

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and taking notes that works for both
the individual and the enterprise.

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But ultimately, it's not replacing
those in real life moments.

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It's augmenting them.

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Matt Abrahams: Are there things
that you do in your own team or in

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your own life where you actually
design for that spontaneity?

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So for example, do you pull your
team together in real life and,

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uh, with a certain frequency?

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Are there certain icebreakers
or activities you do?

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Kim Storin: We are very committed overall
of bringing people together in person

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when needed to drive brainstorming
and ideation and problem-solving.

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But I think for the folks that don't
naturally have those opportunities

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because they don't sit in a function
like marketing that is public facing

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and kind of running those big event
opportunities, I think raising your hand

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and talking to your leader about where
are the right places, when is it the

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right time to spend a week at headquarters
and have some of those moments?

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When is it the right time to bring
your team together for an offsite?

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And when the opportunity outweighs
the cost Leaders are receptive to

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that, but you as an individual in an
organization also have to be raising

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your hand and sharing those ideas with
your leader so that those happenstance

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and in real-life moments can happen.

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Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

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I like that you lean into the role and job
responsibility opportunities to be in real

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life and weigh the pros and cons and costs
of when it makes sense to bring people

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in, either based on the task that's being
done or the need of the group at the time.

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I'd like to get your suggestions
for how we can handle challenging

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external communication issues
that business leaders might face.

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For example, you have to announce a
layoff, or what happened with Zoom.

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Zoom required that all employees
come back to the office, which

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had a moment in the media.

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How do you advise people to think about
their communication when the view in

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the public might be negative towards it?

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What advice do you give as somebody
who has vast experience in marketing

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to help in those situations?

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Kim Storin: So I actually
started my career in crisis

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communications, funny enough.

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So I think about this a lot, and
also great that I started in crisis

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communications because my first
week on the job here at Zoom, we

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faced a crisis, which was an outage
that impacted the Zoom platform.

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And ultimately, what I believe is best
practice is transparency and clarity.

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And again, going back to our
DNA, speed of that response.

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And so I think ultimately understanding
the crisis, have full frame of

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the crisis is really important.

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So going slow to go fast, because if you
start moving fast with limited information

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or not understanding the repercussions
of the crisis at hand, you can end up

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having to backtrack, which makes it even
worse, calls more attention than if you

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had taken a beat and made sure that you
had the full view of what's happening.

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So I always say, like, go slow to go fast
when it comes to a crisis, but you have

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to act with a sense of urgency and be
able to pull the right voices together.

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In many ways, it is the voice of our
partners, the voice of analysts, the voice

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of media that people look to in a crisis.

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Like, what are these third parties
saying about the crisis, not

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just what the company is saying?

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And so in that moment of going
slow to go fast, in that moment

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of really understanding the issue,
also mapping out who are the

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voices, who are the stakeholders
that can help you tell your story.

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And that becomes really critical
because it is core for you to own the

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message and your narrative, but you
also want to shape the market narrative.

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And so I always like to start with that
stakeholder map as well and understanding

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who can help me tell this story.

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Were there other partners that
are involved in the crisis?

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Are there other partners that
have a stake in the ground?

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Anyone shaping that narrative
that we need to be working with to

00:15:23.210 --> 00:15:24.980
collectively shape that narrative.

00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:30.099
And then lastly, like I try to be as
transparent as possible because again,

00:15:30.460 --> 00:15:38.530
we live in an age where people can spot
fakeness and inauthenticity so fast.

00:15:38.809 --> 00:15:42.970
And again, you want to watch
out for making the reputation

00:15:42.970 --> 00:15:47.659
worse, and your reputation and
your brand are the most valuable

00:15:47.709 --> 00:15:49.459
assets that you have as a company.

00:15:49.929 --> 00:15:56.219
And so being able to be very
transparent and clear, especially

00:15:56.219 --> 00:15:59.909
if customers were impacted, is kind
of the third piece of what I would

00:15:59.909 --> 00:16:03.079
say is kind of crisis comms 101.

00:16:03.079 --> 00:16:08.639
Matt Abrahams: So thinking about the
stakeholder map is really important.

00:16:08.649 --> 00:16:10.499
Who are the constituents
that are involved?

00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:13.859
It's, uh, beyond just the
company and the customers.

00:16:14.390 --> 00:16:20.889
Slowing down to understand fully the
situation and then creating messages

00:16:20.899 --> 00:16:26.869
that are transparent and understandable
and clear, really important.

00:16:26.909 --> 00:16:30.829
And thank you for sharing that because all
of us in our work, be it in our personal

00:16:30.839 --> 00:16:34.309
work or in the work of the company,
are going to have times where we have

00:16:34.309 --> 00:16:39.029
to communicate challenging information
outside the walls of the organization.

00:16:40.372 --> 00:16:42.662
Kim, this has been really
enlightening and insightful.

00:16:42.672 --> 00:16:43.312
Thank you.

00:16:43.352 --> 00:16:47.832
Before we end, I like to ask everybody
three questions, one I create just for you

00:16:47.832 --> 00:16:49.781
and two I've been asking for a long time.

00:16:49.782 --> 00:16:50.542
Are you up for that?

00:16:50.842 --> 00:16:51.652
Kim Storin: Let's do it.

00:16:52.061 --> 00:16:54.882
Matt Abrahams: So I know you believe
strongly in philanthropy, and

00:16:54.882 --> 00:16:59.811
you focus on many causes in this
area, especially women's issues.

00:17:00.161 --> 00:17:04.111
Can you share why you feel so strongly
that we all should think about giving

00:17:04.111 --> 00:17:06.031
back and focusing on philanthropy?

00:17:06.491 --> 00:17:07.161
Kim Storin: Absolutely.

00:17:07.161 --> 00:17:11.271
So I started community work and
volunteering back when I was in fourth

00:17:11.291 --> 00:17:16.012
grade, and my mom played a huge role
in, in helping to, to shape this in me.

00:17:16.351 --> 00:17:20.861
I do believe that service is a virtue,
and it is the responsibility of each

00:17:20.861 --> 00:17:24.581
of us to do unto others as we would
have done unto ourselves, right?

00:17:24.651 --> 00:17:26.982
That was the thing I learned
from my mom, was really the

00:17:26.982 --> 00:17:28.741
importance of that golden rule.

00:17:29.122 --> 00:17:34.011
I'm now really focused on community-led
solutions to local challenges, and

00:17:34.021 --> 00:17:38.001
it's why I've become such a huge
supporter of community foundations.

00:17:38.421 --> 00:17:42.092
You know, we have such a loneliness
epidemic, and what I love about

00:17:42.101 --> 00:17:46.311
the community foundation is that
it truly is about community.

00:17:46.321 --> 00:17:51.601
Not just about philanthropy, but also
coming together as a community to solve

00:17:51.611 --> 00:17:57.322
the problems in the community, and it
makes us feel more connected to, to our

00:17:57.322 --> 00:18:02.481
local organizations, to others that have
similar things that they care about.

00:18:02.821 --> 00:18:06.181
Matt Abrahams: I love that you have a
long history of philanthropy and that

00:18:06.181 --> 00:18:10.811
it's beyond just doing what's good
and, and in many cases right, but it's

00:18:10.811 --> 00:18:12.732
about building a sense of community.

00:18:13.112 --> 00:18:16.011
And that amplification can
really make a difference.

00:18:16.482 --> 00:18:20.992
Question number two, who is a
communicator that you admire and why?

00:18:21.486 --> 00:18:23.726
Kim Storin: So my mind goes to,
and it's probably 'cause I've been

00:18:23.736 --> 00:18:27.566
hanging out a little bit too much
with my nieces, but Taylor Swift is

00:18:27.566 --> 00:18:31.736
just somebody that I think does such
an amazing job of communications.

00:18:32.165 --> 00:18:36.955
And I think ultimately, I call
her this, like, audience architect

00:18:37.186 --> 00:18:41.405
because she has such a sophisticated
view with the role that the audience

00:18:41.406 --> 00:18:43.365
plays in how she communicates.

00:18:43.785 --> 00:18:47.156
And she does a lot of direct to audience
communication, and she disintermediates

00:18:47.986 --> 00:18:52.615
the media a lot, which I think is
a valuable lesson for all of us.

00:18:52.636 --> 00:18:57.896
Not that, like, we all have the ability
to pull off what Taylor's name grants

00:18:57.925 --> 00:19:03.176
her in the, in the market, but she does
turn fans into distribution channels

00:19:03.666 --> 00:19:07.946
and more importantly, into defenders
with such a passion and standing up

00:19:07.946 --> 00:19:09.396
for you when you're not in the room.

00:19:09.615 --> 00:19:11.385
And so I think there's a
lot we can learn there.

00:19:11.875 --> 00:19:13.396
Matt Abrahams: I love that
you picked Taylor Swift.

00:19:13.445 --> 00:19:16.715
I think she's a great example for
many of the reasons you articulated.

00:19:17.006 --> 00:19:22.115
This idea of audience architecture and
really thinking about your audience

00:19:22.115 --> 00:19:27.375
and how to convert fans into defenders
is a really interesting idea for all

00:19:27.375 --> 00:19:30.096
of us to think about and to watch
how she does it, and she's just so

00:19:30.096 --> 00:19:31.615
dynamic and with so much energy.

00:19:31.615 --> 00:19:32.416
I appreciate that.

00:19:32.785 --> 00:19:34.146
Final question for you, Kim.

00:19:34.195 --> 00:19:39.965
What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

00:19:40.425 --> 00:19:42.445
Kim Storin: So I think we've
talked about all of these

00:19:42.475 --> 00:19:44.086
things, but I'll just reiterate.

00:19:44.086 --> 00:19:47.896
So I think number one is authenticity,
especially in this world of AI

00:19:47.896 --> 00:19:50.445
slop, authenticity is going to rule.

00:19:50.456 --> 00:19:54.155
Gen Z is telling us over
and over and over again that

00:19:54.335 --> 00:19:56.595
authentic communications matters.

00:19:56.706 --> 00:20:00.655
Taylor Swift is telling us over and over
again, authentic communication matters.

00:20:00.666 --> 00:20:02.645
I think the second one is transparency.

00:20:02.675 --> 00:20:05.445
We talked about that when we talked
about crisis communications, and

00:20:05.445 --> 00:20:08.995
I think transparency, whether
it's internal communications or

00:20:09.015 --> 00:20:11.205
external, goes a really long way.

00:20:11.625 --> 00:20:16.705
I think spin has less value right now
than authenticity and transparency.

00:20:16.715 --> 00:20:21.675
And then lastly, solutions oriented, and
I say that because I think so many of the

00:20:21.675 --> 00:20:27.326
times we think it's about the words that
we're using, and really what it is, it's

00:20:27.346 --> 00:20:29.185
the solution that we're communicating.

00:20:29.425 --> 00:20:34.295
When you have a crisis or message
that you're trying to bring to the

00:20:34.295 --> 00:20:39.366
masses, you want them to understand
that you understand the problem and

00:20:39.366 --> 00:20:40.725
you're bringing them a solution.

00:20:41.066 --> 00:20:43.386
And ultimately, we're
not just navel-gazing.

00:20:43.805 --> 00:20:48.645
And so I think that third piece of the
recipe has to be solutions orientation

00:20:49.174 --> 00:20:52.514
Matt Abrahams: I really like your
three, and everybody listening knows

00:20:52.514 --> 00:20:53.974
I like when things are memorable.

00:20:53.984 --> 00:20:57.764
So authenticity, transparency, relevancy.

00:20:57.764 --> 00:21:02.054
If you have those three ingredients,
you're going to have very successful

00:21:02.054 --> 00:21:07.454
communication and very connected
communication, which is really important.

00:21:07.923 --> 00:21:11.513
Kim, this has been really a great
conversation and very insightful.

00:21:11.523 --> 00:21:14.334
Many of the things that you
shared are things that people

00:21:14.454 --> 00:21:19.034
will or have confronted, and
some of your best practices can

00:21:19.054 --> 00:21:20.703
really help us make a difference.

00:21:20.704 --> 00:21:22.903
Thank you for your time and
thank you for your insights.

00:21:23.154 --> 00:21:23.704
Kim Storin: Thank you.

00:21:23.704 --> 00:21:25.963
And always remember, what
would Taylor Swift do?

00:21:27.364 --> 00:21:29.113
Matt Abrahams: Definitely
shake it up, that's for sure.

00:21:30.873 --> 00:21:31.543
Kim Storin: Amazing.

00:21:33.244 --> 00:21:35.393
Matt Abrahams: Thank you for joining
us for another episode of Think

00:21:35.393 --> 00:21:37.433
Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

00:21:37.823 --> 00:21:41.054
To learn more about managing internal
and external communication, please

00:21:41.054 --> 00:21:44.033
listen to episode 82 with Nancy Duarte.

00:21:44.503 --> 00:21:49.243
This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

00:21:49.433 --> 00:21:51.054
Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

00:21:51.283 --> 00:21:53.884
With special thanks to
Podium Podcast Company.

00:21:54.284 --> 00:21:57.473
Please find us on YouTube and
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00:22:07.593 --> 00:22:09.673
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00:22:10.083 --> 00:22:13.313
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