269. Ask Matt Anything: Bring Clarity to Complicated Conversations

[00:00:00] Matt Abrahams: Ready, set, go. Let's get into some communication conundrums and questions. I'm Matt Abrahams and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to this Quick Thinks Ask Matt Anything episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. One of the many, many things I love about the Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community is interacting with our members. I do this through posts, comments, and discussions, along with author talks and AMAs, Ask Matt Anythings. Today I'm sharing a portion of a recent Learning Community AMA. Listen in to learn about moving from reacting to responding, memorizing to conversing, and how to integrate these tips into your everyday life. And consider joining the Learning Community at fastersmarter.io/learning to ask your questions live. So let's get to it. 

[00:00:55] Learning Community Member 1: Uh, I'm in Switzerland actually. 

[00:00:56] Matt Abrahams: Oh, excellent. Love to hear your question, please. 

[00:00:59] Learning Community Member 1: I try to use the structure what, now what, so what, a lot. And if I prepare myself, it works quite well. And then the conversation starts, and I guess I'm a very emotional guy and I can be very impulsive. Once my values are hurt, I start to become a little bit destructive and I just lose control about every structure, say a few things then make some stupid comments, and then I find difficulties how to control that situation.

[00:01:24] Matt Abrahams: What I'd like to suggest is a few things, and you can let me know if you think they work, and in fact, you can try them out and then write me inside the Learning Community and we can engage in a conversation. For me at least, and what the research suggests, is if you can give yourself a little bit of distance from the offending act, whatever it is, somebody says something that upsets you, somebody disrespects you in some way, if you can give yourself a little bit of space, you can then make a more conscious decision rather than just respond with whatever comes up. So how can you do that? Well, a couple things. One, you can literally ask for it. You can say, I wasn't expecting that, or, wow, that didn't feel so good. Gimme a moment, and just ask for it.

[00:02:05] Now, that might feel weird to do, but it gives you a second, and in that moment you can take a deep breath. You can recognize, hey, this is me feeling really upset at this moment, or this is me feeling very confused, and giving that distance, that psychological distance, can help. So I think the bottom line here, Florian, is if you can buy yourself just a little bit of time, you can think a little bit more, react rather than respond. I make a difference between those two. React is to act again, meaning you think about it and then you act, respond is just to immediately do something. What I'm hearing is that you respond quickly and maybe buying yourself some time to react will help. Other questions that folks might have?

[00:02:49] Learning Community Member 2: Yeah. Matt, I have a question. 

[00:02:50] Matt Abrahams: Please. 

[00:02:51] Learning Community Member 2: So I'm very fascinated with this idea of improv speaking and, uh, impromptu speaking. So I did a TEDx talk about two years ago and that was all memorization and it was all memory palace. And I did a pretty okay job at it, I think. Do you suggest I use the basic trainings I got with memory palace and how to adjust that so that I can actually speak coherently, but also not be so fixated on that cognitive load, which is exactly my stumbling blocks.

[00:03:24] Matt Abrahams: I love this question. First and foremost, congratulations on focusing on this. Many people are just so glad to figure out a way to get information out. They're not looking to be more in the moment and spontaneous. Congratulations on giving a TEDx talk. There are times where you are in a situation where you have to say something exactly right. Imagine a medical professional, a legal professional, a politician, where it is really important to get it exactly right. And in those cases, if you don't have notes or a teleprompter, then using some kind of memory aid can be really helpful. Now, for those of you who aren't familiar, the memory palace is a technique.

[00:04:07] It's a technique of using spatial location to help us remember. Human beings, our species, is really good at spatial location, and there are whole theories as to why. And so the spatial palace has you put, in your mind's eye, information in locations that are very familiar for you. So the reason it's called palace, it often is done with a home or a setting. So if I am trying to learn something and really make sure I remember it, I think about my childhood home, the house I grew up in. I know the layout very well in my mind. And in each room or area of the house, I put a concept, an idea, some words. It helps me remember because I'm associating the information I want to communicate with a location I'm very familiar with.

[00:04:54] So essentially I'm piggybacking or hitchhiking on my brain's ability to remember location well. And so I just wanna make sure everybody understood what we were talking about when we were talking about memory palace. It's a very useful technique. In fact, there are memory competitions. There's a great book called Walking on the Moon with Einstein. It's about a journalist who was really fascinated by these memory competitions and so much so that he actually started entering them and ended up becoming a national or international memory champion. How can we feel more comfortable getting through material spontaneously? I really believe the answer is structure and practice.

[00:05:35] Structure as we were just talking about. What, so what, now what, is an example of structure. There are many problem, solution, benefit, past, present, future, comparison, contrast, conclusion. Lots of different structures. A structure provides a roadmap like a GPS. It is hard to get lost if you have a structure. So by knowing my structure well, let's say I want to use problem, solution, benefit. I'm trying to persuade people. I know the problem well, I've thought about it. I've done research, whatever. I know the problem well. The solution is something I really believe in, so I also know that well, and I've thought about how I and others benefit.

[00:06:12] So by having those different parts of the structure known well, because I've thought about, spent time doing it, when I'm in the process of delivering the communication, and if for some reason I feel a little lost or concerned, I simply have to say, okay, I just talked about the problem, I know solution always follows. So that's how a structure provides a roadmap. Now, if you go from memorizing or using a technique like the memory palace to just relying on structure, it can feel like a big leap. And that's why practice in low stake situations is important. So I wouldn't do this on a TED or a TEDx stage for the first time.

[00:06:52] But I might do it in a PTA meeting or in a team meeting when I'm presenting. So you have to practice and relying on structure. And a third thing that I do that really helps me, and for some people this works and for others it doesn't, is I use questions as triggers. So if I were using problem, solution, benefit, I might start my persuasive presentation meeting contribution by saying there's a fundamental challenge that we have, and I'd like to ask all of you, how can we solve it? So you see how I'm asking myself a question and because I know the answer to the question, it helps me get into the structure I want to use.

[00:07:35] So when I lecture my students, I never say, today we're going to cover three points. I always say we're going to answer three questions today, and then I pose the question as a trigger to help me remember the structure that I want to use. So let me pause there. Do you think leveraging structure and perhaps questions would be helpful to you, uh, in these circumstances? 

[00:07:54] Learning Community Member 2: Absolutely. That really gave me great context. Thanks, Matt. 

[00:07:59] Learning Community Member 3: My question will be more about the preparation. I believe that my main challenge for public speaking is having something interesting to say, especially when I'm part of Toast Masters at McGill University here in Montreal. My challenge is that first of all, I'm French speaking. I like to practice my public speaking in English so that I will grow, I will increase my vocabulary, grammar, and everything in English.

[00:08:31] My challenge is that I sometimes lack the vocabulary, obviously, when I want to say some, uh, when I'm, I'm presenting or speaking, and I know that I just have to increase listening to podcast, reading, et cetera, et cetera. But my other challenge is structure, organize my day, so that I still find time to, to find some time of learning. I'm just curious and have my own business in PR, but I know I have to keep on learning and learning each and every day. Because just as you said, it's a way of training your brain. And make sure that you grow in your knowledge and your also your speaking. 

[00:09:17] Matt Abrahams: I like that you are thinking about improving communication, not just by doing it, and practice is really important, but by learning skills, the why behind the what, and listening to shows like Think Fast Talk Smart, reading books, can be very helpful to building that. And then the other thing I liked that you said is the building into your daily routine ways to learn and practice communication skills. Many of us think that communication is when we're standing up in a meeting or giving a big presentation or pitch, but we're communicating all the time. The way in which we communicate and the things we say and the order in which we say it, all of that can be instructive.

[00:09:54] So when you're having a family meal and you're talking with your children, or when you are talking with a neighbor, there are things you can be thinking about and working on that will help you in those more formal types of communication. It's about intent. It's just about thinking. The best way to be engaged in communication is to be curious. It's about being interested, not interesting. And so if you can focus on asking questions, paraphrasing to show that you've heard what the person says, giving people more space to talk. You might have heard me tell this story about my mother-in-law. She was a black belt in small talk, and she would simply say, tell me more.

[00:10:36] So as part of a conversation, she would give somebody space. And when you do that, you then find interesting things to talk about. So we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to be interesting and if we're interested, the interesting will follow. So ask questions, paraphrase, give people space to talk, and you'll make a big difference. Every night before I go to bed. I spend a minute thinking about one thing that went well in my communication that day, and one thing that I was not as pleased with, something I'd like to work on. And every Sunday I go back and I look at the list and I make a plan for the week ahead to work on that skill. So this week, something I did last week, I was part of a conversation and I didn't feel that I listened very well.

[00:11:21] I was rushed and I had an agenda in mind and I don't feel I listened very well. So this week I'm really working on my listening skills. Who knows what I'll work on next week, but, uh, that's how I have incorporated working on communication into my life. I know other people who have a trusted other, uh, if you will, a communication buddy. And at the end of meetings, regular meetings, like maybe team meetings, they'll sit down with their buddy, their partner, and they'll just say, hey, gimme one strength and one thing to strengthen. So they build in feedback close to the actual communication, so it's fresh in their minds. Sarah, I see your hand came up. Happy to hear from you. 

[00:11:58] Learning Community Member 4: Yes. I just wanted to reflect on what you were saying. When asking for feedback you just ask the person, but you don't ask them just for a feedback. You tell them, I'm focusing on improving this part or like talking or the body language or a specific category or a specific topic that you're working on, and then asking this person to focus on that part that you're working on during a meeting or during a presentation. And then they give you a feedback on that. So I think this is a very good method. I've read about it, I really like it. 

[00:12:27] Matt Abrahams: And I really appreciate you sharing that, Sarah. Sarah, where in the world are you? 

[00:12:31] Learning Community Member 4: Egypt. 

[00:12:32] Matt Abrahams: Egypt. Wonderful. Thank you. There's a whole bunch of research and a lot of experts make the same suggestion. When asking for feedback it is very important to be specific about the feedback you want. Giving feedback is hard. And if you make it easy for people, people will often take the easiest route. If I just say, do you have any feedback for me, it's the easiest route is to say, no, it was good. That's easy. It's not confrontational. So being specific, what are one or two things I could do to help make this meeting run more effectively? Do you hear how that's a much more specific ask, and it can be very helpful.

[00:13:10] Now, the other thing that's super helpful when asking for feedback is to demonstrate that you heard the feedback, doesn't mean you agree with it, and to try to act on it. People are much more likely to give you feedback if they feel like you're really listening and that you're really trying to make adjustments. Absolutely. And Sarah, I really appreciate that. Let me ask one question and then I think we'll bring this to a close. I'm curious if you have had a time to explore the Learning Community. And I'm curious to find what you are finding valuable from it. There are so many different features that will be helpful.

[00:13:42] We have our quests, which are guided opportunities to learn a particular skill that go for a certain number of days. So any one quest has challenges in it. We just did a quest together on small talk. But we have lessons, these are asynchronous videos that cover different topics. We'll be releasing a new lesson every so often. In fact, our next one is coming out soon. We have author talks. I just spoke with a mentor of mine, Patricia Ryan Madson, fantastic. You can watch the, the recording of that. We have AI tools. We have one you type into that responds, and then we have one you can talk to. It's like having a conversation with me, and lots of other things. I'm just curious if one or two of you'd be willing to share what you're finding value in in the Learning Community, because we'd like to bring you more of it. 

[00:14:27] Learning Community Member 2: So, I really love the author talks. It was really good.

[00:14:30] Matt Abrahams: Oh, great. Thank you. 

[00:14:31] Learning Community Member 2: I did tune into the recent one. And I think it has a lot of great content. I just, timewise, it's just a lot to get through.

[00:14:41] Matt Abrahams: Yes, of course.

[00:14:41] Learning Community Member 2: But I was just curious if you thought of maybe having or implementing something like a collaborative. 

[00:14:46] Matt Abrahams: Tell me more about this. 

[00:14:48] Learning Community Member 2: I find that I learn better when I am in a group setting, or at least with one or two other people. And it fosters, because we're talking about communication, it fosters that communication. And I think I could maybe learn new things from a few people who might wanna join a pod of, or a smaller pod. 

[00:15:08] Matt Abrahams: Absolutely, yes, and 100%, we learn best when we work together. Thank you for sharing that. The goal of the quests is to try to do that, you can do it on your own. There will be times where we will organize them like we just did with the one on small talk. But also you have every right in the Learning Community itself to post and say, I'm interested in, hey, there's this quest on whatever. I'm interested in doing it, and see if other people will join you. So I'm not saying, I'm not trying to put it all on you by any means, we will try to facilitate some of this, uh, on a regular basis, but you also have the opportunity. Part of what I'm hoping happens in the Learning Community is people who have similar goals, and everybody has different communication goals, can find each other. But I love that idea. Other thoughts about the Learning Community? 

[00:15:51] Learning Community Member 4: Yes, for the small talk, the quest, it was really up to, I couldn't attend all the, the calls like after the quest, the next day, but I watched the recording, so it was really nice to hear from people when they said what they had practiced and to do what, like what they did during these exercises, small exercise. And what I liked as well, like today for example, there was, I think it was about the movement and engaging with your audience, and I just posted a question because it was talking about, uh, presenting in real life, not online or virtual. And I was asking about how to do it virtually and to have this, the same thing, like do it online. And I got an answer like an hour after. So, so the support there is very amazing. 

[00:16:32] Matt Abrahams: Yes, everybody has expertise in communication. We've all been doing it for a long time, so I love that other people are sharing. I am certainly not the only voice that needs to be listened to or should be listened to. And thank you for taking the time to join, not just the community, but for joining today. I hope you took value. I challenge all of you to continue to explore and do the work. We have another author talk coming up on February 12th. I'll be talking to my friend and linguist, Valerie Fridland, one of my favorite episodes. I was talking to her. And then I will do another, ask me anything towards the end of the month in February. So the goal is to have one author talk and one AMA a month in the Learning Community as well as some of the other things. So please take, uh, advantage of it and I appreciate that. I see there's one more quick comment before we wrap up. 

[00:17:19] Learning Community Member 3: Yes. It was just about the, the quest, I really like the fact that we can, I can take some time to pause and think. And the quest really is really helpful in the, the, the reflection, the introspection. I don't know if that's the word in English. Thinking about, uh, what are the skills, the tips, the things that I already have that I can put into, uh, action to improve my, my public speaking. Or tools that I could, uh, learn or improve, et cetera.

[00:17:56] And I really also enjoyed the, the books. Um, it's interesting to discover the type of books that we can read or the type of authors or books that we can, or maybe authors we can follow, or books that we can read. Because sometimes it's about like, there's a lot of, uh, knowledge around the world, everywhere about communication, sometime you don't really know where to look, so it's good if, with what you are doing with the book club, it's like giving us some kind of roadmap or some ideas. 

[00:18:34] Matt Abrahams: Absolutely. In, in the chat on the fastersmarter.io site, which is the site for the podcast, uh, we have a whole book list. These are books from our guests and all of them have to do with communication in some way, shape, or form.

[00:18:50] Thank you for joining us for this Quick Thinks Ask Matt Anything episode. To join our next AMA Live, sign up for our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community at fastersmarter.io/learning. This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wonder. With thanks to Podium Podcast Company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram. And check out fastersmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter. Please consider our premium offering for extended deep thinks episodes and much more at faster smarter.io/premium. You'll also find value by joining our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community at fastersmarter.io/learning. You'll find video lessons, learning quests, discussion boards, and AI coach and book club opportunities. Again, that's fastersmarter.io/learning to become part of our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community.