275. Cracking the Code: Learn The Unspoken Rules of Workplace Success

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Matt Abrahams: Success in life
and in work is not just about

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showing up and communicating.

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It's about making sure you understand
what's needed in the moment.

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My name's Matt Abrahams and I
teach Strategic Communication at

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Stanford Graduate School of Business.

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Welcome to Think Fast.

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Talk Smart, the podcast.

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Today, I look forward to
speaking with Erin McGoff.

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Erin is a very successful creator, widely
known for her popular AdviceWithErin,

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where she reaches millions with
practical career and life advice.

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Erin specializes in making
complex professional topics

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accessible and actionable.

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She recently was named
to Forbes 30 under 30.

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Her new book is called The Secret
Language of Work: Hyper Helpful

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Scripts for Every Situation.

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Welcome, Erin.

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Over the past several months, I've
really enjoyed getting to know you,

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and I really appreciate the helpful,
actionable advice you provide.

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Thanks for being here.

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Erin McGoff: Thanks Matt for having me.

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I'm really excited about this.

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Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

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Shall we get started?

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Erin McGoff: Yeah, let's go for it.

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Matt Abrahams: So I'd like to
start with the title of your new

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book, The Secret Language of Work.

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You argue that there's a secret language
in the workplace and that cracking

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that code is critical to success.

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Can you share more about this and what
are some specific translations that you

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found really unlock success for people?

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Erin McGoff: So I was motivated to
write this book based off of my content.

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You know, I make short form video
content teaching people how to phrase

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things more professionally, but not in
a corporate or robotic way, but rather

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strike that balance between sounding
professional, but also sounding like

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yourself and sounding authentic.

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When I was coming up in my career,
I just noticed that there was

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just this language, there was this
etiquette that you had to learn.

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Some people were taught it when
they were growing up, like their

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parents would teach them, or maybe
they're even lucky enough to learn

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it in school, which is really rare.

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And it's this hidden curriculum to
the workforce, and it's all these

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secret rules that show that you're
capable and competent and that you

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know how to be professional, like
shaking hands on a job interview.

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It's not written down anywhere.

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It's not equally distributed.

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So I was motivated to write the book
because I wanted to write down the

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hidden etiquette of job interviews and
how to negotiate without being rude

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and professionally quit your job so
that people could have this handbook.

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And while a book is about strategic
communication in the workforce, it

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really is a book that's designed
to make people feel more confident.

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I wrote it in a way that's similar to
how I'm speaking right now, just like

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really warm and nonjudgmental, and it's
designed to help people, it's a self-help

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book, but it's also to help you feel
really good at yourself and confident

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because you can only communicate as
successfully as you believe what you're

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saying and your confidence level.

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Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.

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So how you feel translates directly into
how you present yourself and communicate.

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What are one or two of the
things that you advise people to

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begin to build that confidence?

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Erin McGoff: Yeah, a lot of people
really struggle with confidence.

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I always say that confidence isn't binary.

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Confidence is a spectrum and it's
something that goes up and down.

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Working on your confidence is
about raising that threshold.

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You're gonna go up and down every
day, but the more you work on your

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confidence, the more you can raise your
threshold so it won't go down so much.

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The person that you speak to
the most is actually yourself.

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We talk to ourselves all day,
every day, in our minds, and we

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can be really mean to ourselves.

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Really judgmental and critical.

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And the first step, and really the
most important step to becoming

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confident is to be your own best friend.

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Turn that voice, don't try to shut
it off 'cause that's impossible,

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but try to turn it into something
that's a bit more constructive.

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And to tell yourself, you didn't bomb that
interview, you stumbled over your words

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on one of the questions, and it was fine.

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You're human.

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You know, just to kind of reframe those
cognitive distortions that we have.

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Surround yourself with people who make
you feel good about yourself, but surround

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yourself with a great support group.

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And then another thing that I don't
think enough people talk about is

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to get really good at what you do.

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That is a great natural way
to foster true confidence.

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What you'll see a lot is the
thinly veiled insecurity that

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people think is confidence.

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True confidence is actually really relaxed
and calm and even funny and humble.

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Once you feel really good about
yourself and you like who you

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are, you don't really care as much
about other people think of you.

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Matt Abrahams: Thank you for that.

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There's so much richness in what you said.

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So first and foremost, it starts
internally, the conversations we

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have with ourself, and then it's the
confidence we have in what we do.

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So get really good at it.

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And then surround yourself
with people who reinforce that.

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And realize that being kind to yourself,
having a supportive network, can really

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change where you are in that trajectory.

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And you're right,
confidence is not binary.

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It varies.

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And so I really like the advice,
and it does start with that

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looking internally and having
that confidence in yourself first.

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Thank you.

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You've done a really great job of
sharing information with the world,

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creating short form content, really
setting up a brand for yourself.

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I'd love for you to share some advice
and best practices that you use in terms

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of how you present yourself externally.

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Having a brand that comes
with you into work is helpful.

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Having a presence that's
beyond just the physical you.

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What are some best practices
you recommend for engaging

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people and establishing a brand?

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Erin McGoff: The number one piece
of advice I always give is do great

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work and be great to work with.

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Because a lot of people are great
at their jobs and they're jerks, and

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eventually it catches up with them and
nobody wants to work with them because

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they're so difficult to work with.

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And while they might get away
with that for 5 to 10 years, it

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does eventually catch up with you.

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And that's why I always say, don't
burn bridges if you don't have to.

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Give people the benefit of the doubt.

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Try to get along with everyone and be
friendly because that reputation is

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really important and trust is important
too, and it takes so long to build

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trust that you can break it in a second.

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So it's really important that you
actually teach people how to treat you.

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Tell people, this is who
I am as a professional.

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Here's what I'm here to do and
here's what I'm like to work with.

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You have a professional brand whether
you like it or not, and it's up to you to

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decide if you're in control of that or if
you're gonna let other people steer that.

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Matt Abrahams: So reflecting on what
that brand is, what you want it to

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be, and then I want to dive a little
deeper into the advice you gave about

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asserting who you want to be at work
and how people should work with you.

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It's easy to understand that
intellectually, but how do I go to

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my boss, my colleagues, and say,
hey, here's who I want to be at work,

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and here's how best to work with me.

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Advice and guidance on how to do that?

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Erin McGoff: Yeah, so you have to
teach other people how to treat you

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and what they can expect from you.

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And actually a lot of this happens
within the first 24 hours of a new job.

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It's really important right up front
to tell people what they can expect

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from you and to be proactive and to
say, well, that's not something that

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I do, however, I can help with this.

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And that is also known
as boundary setting.

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Another thing is just
proactive communication,

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just getting ahead of things.

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I remember when I was first starting
out, I was on a film set, and the

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director gave me a great piece of advice.

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She said, ask people how
they want to be directed.

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I was like, that is a
great piece of advice.

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Why don't we ask people how
they want to be managed?

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Different people have
different working styles.

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Some people are external processors,
like me, and they like to talk through

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things, and other people like to
figure it out first and then come to a

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meeting and present you with solutions.

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They're equally fine, but it's about
figuring out what is their communication

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style, what is their preferred
workflow and then getting into that.

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And, and that leads me to my third
point, which is setting expectations.

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And understanding the difference between
expectations, which are something

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specific that you envision the other
person and expecting them to do for

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you, and standards, which is a standard
that you have for yourself that when

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other people don't meet that then you
will choose to disengage with them.

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And at work, it's really important to
have standards and also set expectations.

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That means don't overpromise.

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You want to actually underpromise
and overdeliver, and that's typically

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a really great way to set yourself
up for success, teach people how to

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treat you and what to expect from
you while also being respected.

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It's a great way to building
that professional brand at work.

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Matt Abrahams: I really like
several things you said there.

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One is all about anchoring, setting
expectations, and you have to think

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about what those expectations are.

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It's important to establish boundaries
and let people know what's appropriate

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not, and I really like what you said is,
if you're going to say, no, I can't, or

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don't feel comfortable doing one thing,
do share what you are comfortable doing.

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Some people are just so excited to have
the new job or to be part of the new

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community, that they don't really think
about what their immediate behavior,

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as you said, that first 24 hours
does in terms of setting expectations

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for the whole time you're there.

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And I really like how you talk about
we have to do that introspection first.

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So thank you for that.

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Where do most people go wrong when
advocating for themselves during

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things like performance reviews,
promotions, or salary conversations?

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What can we do to get it right?

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Erin McGoff: Whenever you are trying
to advocate for yourself or negotiate

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or trying to get anyone else to get
on board with you, the last thing

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you wanna do is talk about yourself.

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At the end of the day, the company isn't
going to give you a raise because your

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student loans are getting more expensive.

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They're just not, because it's
not their problem, and it's

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just not a compelling argument.

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So whenever you're going into a situation
where you need to convince someone else

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to get on board with that idea, you
need to put yourself on the back burner.

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Put your ego in a little
box, put it to the side, and

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think about them as a person.

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When it comes to advocating for
yourself, you have to find reasons

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that what you want is something
that they would want as well.

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So you have to think about
what their goals are, what the

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company's goals are, and how you
can align those goals together.

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For example, if you don't really
like working on a client project

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anymore, instead of going in and
saying, I don't like working on this

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client project, it's really boring.

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I don't wanna do it anymore, their
boss is just gonna say, tough luck.

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Instead, if you went in and said,
hey, I think my skillset would

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be much better used over here.

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You know, I'm not really
being utilized right here.

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I think Kevin can handle
this a lot better.

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Then your manager is hearing, oh,
these clients are gonna be happier.

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You want them to walk away thinking,
I need to do this for their sake.

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Matt Abrahams: The point about
perspective taking is so important.

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It's not about what you want, it's about
what they need and really understanding

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that and making that mental shift.

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I like how you say put your ego
and your needs on the back burner.

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It's not that they aren't important,
but the way you position the message

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about what value it has for them.

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And the final piece you mentioned
there, also super important, which is

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demonstrate that in your asking, you're
not just asking for what you want,

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but you're also showing how you think.

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If you say, I would be better at this
role and maybe this other person could

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do this stuff, you are demonstrating
your value because you can think

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about how the group, the company,
the organization, can do better.

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I appreciate that.

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I'd like to talk about first impressions.

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You and I both know
they're super important.

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What advice do you have for
how we can maximize the first

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impression people have of us?

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Erin McGoff: So first
impressions are so important.

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I will say also, I love what Chris
Voss says, your last impression

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is your lasting impression.

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I think people should also think
about their last impressions.

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You get one chance to make a first
impression, and I think the best thing

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you can do when you meet somebody new
is listen and be curious about them.

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People are really interesting.

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Everyone has their own little world
and their own little life, and they

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have interesting things about them.

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You just have to be curious about it.

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And most people go into it
thinking, how can I look good?

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How can I have them understand me?

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So the best thing that you can do
is go in, be really warm, smile.

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And just ask them some specific
questions and be curious about them.

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Matt Abrahams: Yeah.

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The point about being interested
and less focused on being

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interesting is really powerful.

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If you're present, you're listening,
you are trying to draw other people

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out, can really make a difference.

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I like to share that my mother-in-law
was so good at making first impressions

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and her secret was to listen and
then say something very simple.

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She'd just say, tell me more.

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And in that moment would
really connect with people.

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It really helps.

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One of the big signature bits
of advice you give related to

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these first impressions, and all
impressions, actually, is how do

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you come off as professional without
being seen as a corporate robot?

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How do you suggest people
strike that balance between

00:12:10.410 --> 00:12:12.390
professionalism and authenticity?

00:12:12.510 --> 00:12:14.490
It's a fine line to walk, right?

00:12:14.790 --> 00:12:15.840
Erin McGoff: It can be tough.

00:12:16.020 --> 00:12:19.940
Professional relationships are different
than personal relationships because

00:12:19.940 --> 00:12:22.430
in your personal life, if you're
not getting along with somebody, you

00:12:22.430 --> 00:12:23.480
can just stop hanging out with them.

00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:27.650
But in a professional sense, you
100% are going to have to work with

00:12:27.650 --> 00:12:29.330
people that you don't personally like.

00:12:29.630 --> 00:12:31.520
You're not going to get along
with everybody you work with

00:12:31.520 --> 00:12:34.650
on a personal level, but you
have to get along with them.

00:12:34.980 --> 00:12:38.460
So that's why the case for professional
speaking and learning how to speak,

00:12:38.550 --> 00:12:41.040
you know, with that etiquette and
choosing when you want to or when

00:12:41.040 --> 00:12:44.370
you don't, is so important because
it keeps things within a box.

00:12:44.760 --> 00:12:48.660
And I always tell people that learning
how to speak professionally benefits you.

00:12:49.230 --> 00:12:52.740
When you are speaking professionally,
you are putting yourself in a persona

00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:55.890
that is a professional version of you,
and it actually makes it a lot easier

00:12:55.890 --> 00:13:00.720
to negotiate a raise, to set boundaries,
to communicate directly, when you're

00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:02.640
within that kind of like lexicon.

00:13:02.970 --> 00:13:06.420
When it comes to balancing your true
personality with your professionalism

00:13:06.985 --> 00:13:10.015
I always recommend that you just
remember your desired outcome.

00:13:10.225 --> 00:13:12.295
That's what I talk about in my
book is whenever you go into a

00:13:12.295 --> 00:13:15.834
conversation, just remember, what
do you actually want to happen.

00:13:16.074 --> 00:13:19.555
With personal relationships, you go into
it and they're usually very emotional.

00:13:19.615 --> 00:13:22.555
You know, I wanna fix this, I
wanna be loved or worthy, but with

00:13:22.555 --> 00:13:25.074
professional it's usually just, I
wanna get this client project done.

00:13:25.675 --> 00:13:28.225
And so it's always important
to keep things professional

00:13:28.225 --> 00:13:29.515
and not necessarily personal.

00:13:29.765 --> 00:13:32.965
And again, that's to your benefit,
and not necessarily just for everybody

00:13:32.965 --> 00:13:35.454
else, but it's actually to benefit
and protect you in the workspace.

00:13:35.865 --> 00:13:38.775
Matt Abrahams: So again, it
comes down to self-reflection and

00:13:38.775 --> 00:13:42.915
understanding that you need to be
different in different circumstances.

00:13:42.915 --> 00:13:45.165
The way you are with your friends,
your family, is different than

00:13:45.165 --> 00:13:46.395
the way you need to be at work.

00:13:46.665 --> 00:13:51.915
The words we use, the language we use,
helps define who we are and helps us be

00:13:51.915 --> 00:13:56.205
connected, and we have to find the right
level of language use to be appropriate.

00:13:56.205 --> 00:14:00.475
It might be right for this organization
to use a lot of acronyms or it

00:14:00.505 --> 00:14:01.555
might not be the right thing.

00:14:01.555 --> 00:14:05.905
So being observant and adjusting, that
power of language is so important.

00:14:06.385 --> 00:14:09.625
And one key indicator, as you just
mentioned, is the context, right?

00:14:09.625 --> 00:14:14.245
So we have to consider the context
and make a decision, which persona,

00:14:14.275 --> 00:14:17.515
or how do we want to show up based on
the context and how we want to appear.

00:14:17.515 --> 00:14:21.085
So another really important point, I
often teach my students, the people I

00:14:21.085 --> 00:14:25.585
coach communication is context dependent,
and you have to make those adjustments.

00:14:25.980 --> 00:14:29.070
Let's talk about something that's
really hard for lots of people, and

00:14:29.070 --> 00:14:33.390
that's interviewing, especially in
today's super competitive environment.

00:14:33.780 --> 00:14:38.010
What's one tip or technique you
suggest that people can do before,

00:14:38.040 --> 00:14:41.100
during, and after an interview
to really help them stand out?

00:14:41.100 --> 00:14:42.990
So actually I'm asking for
three techniques, but at

00:14:42.990 --> 00:14:44.190
three different time points.

00:14:44.400 --> 00:14:46.710
Before they go in, in
the interview and after.

00:14:46.710 --> 00:14:48.210
Do you have some suggestions there?

00:14:48.540 --> 00:14:50.970
Erin McGoff: You know, interviews
are weird because we act like, oh,

00:14:50.970 --> 00:14:52.470
it's just an interview, but it's not.

00:14:52.470 --> 00:14:55.680
You're walking into a room and you're
gonna be judged every millisecond

00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:58.470
you are in that room, and a lot of
recruiters make up their mind in

00:14:58.470 --> 00:14:59.699
the first 10 seconds of meeting you.

00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:04.410
It's scary to sit there and be
judged, especially when you're early

00:15:04.410 --> 00:15:06.750
in your career and you feel like
you don't bring a lot to the table.

00:15:07.079 --> 00:15:10.425
The more you understand your story, the
more practice you get, the easier it gets.

00:15:10.425 --> 00:15:13.185
So the hardest it'll be is in
the beginning of your career.

00:15:13.454 --> 00:15:16.635
When I was early on in my career, I
definitely had physical anxiety, so I

00:15:16.635 --> 00:15:19.395
mentally felt pretty confident going
in and I was like, yeah, I can crush

00:15:19.395 --> 00:15:24.405
this internship, but physically I
would just get really red and hot and

00:15:24.405 --> 00:15:26.475
I felt like my body was betraying me.

00:15:26.910 --> 00:15:31.890
So for that, for example, I would
actually recommend physically exerting

00:15:31.890 --> 00:15:35.490
yourself that morning of the interview,
going on a run, going to yoga.

00:15:35.910 --> 00:15:39.780
What happens before we do something scary,
like an interview, is that our fight or

00:15:39.780 --> 00:15:42.540
flight is getting ignited and we have
this adrenaline running through our body.

00:15:42.719 --> 00:15:45.270
So the best thing you can do
is actually go let it out.

00:15:45.660 --> 00:15:49.380
And then for the mental side, you
gotta get amped up and different

00:15:49.380 --> 00:15:51.180
people get amped up in different ways.

00:15:51.180 --> 00:15:54.720
Some people like to listen to music
that makes 'em feel powerful and strong.

00:15:55.050 --> 00:15:58.830
For me, I love a good pep talk, so
I would call one of my friends and

00:15:58.830 --> 00:16:02.070
be like, can you just gas me up real
quick, like make me feel so good?

00:16:02.280 --> 00:16:05.460
Or even nowadays, I recommend people
just go to ChatGPT and be like,

00:16:05.700 --> 00:16:06.840
hey, here's a job description.

00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:07.500
Here's my resume.

00:16:07.500 --> 00:16:10.350
Can you convince me of why
I'm so good for this job?

00:16:10.935 --> 00:16:13.785
I think it's about having other
people remind you of why you're so

00:16:13.785 --> 00:16:17.235
great, and remembering that they
wouldn't be interviewing you if they

00:16:17.235 --> 00:16:17.970
didn't think you were a good fit.

00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:20.820
So before the interview,
physically get it out.

00:16:20.820 --> 00:16:24.480
And then to mentally really get
excited and confident about yourself.

00:16:24.810 --> 00:16:27.510
And while you're in the interview,
remember that the person

00:16:27.510 --> 00:16:28.920
interviewing you is a person.

00:16:29.160 --> 00:16:30.540
They are a human being.

00:16:30.750 --> 00:16:33.420
Their job is to find
quality candidates to hire.

00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:37.590
So the only thing you need to do is go
in and don't focus so much about talking

00:16:37.590 --> 00:16:39.720
about yourself and what you've done
and your experience and your skills.

00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:43.380
Take the job description and say, I
am the answer to all your problems.

00:16:43.380 --> 00:16:44.340
I've done this before.

00:16:44.340 --> 00:16:45.390
I can do it again.

00:16:45.690 --> 00:16:46.740
I'm a culture fit.

00:16:47.005 --> 00:16:51.505
Have a great attitude, smile, use
positive language, keep it forward

00:16:51.505 --> 00:16:54.385
facing, solution oriented, so you
wanna have that unique offering.

00:16:54.385 --> 00:16:56.365
It's like when you're buying a
pair of jeans and you have three

00:16:56.365 --> 00:16:59.305
in front of you, what's going to
make you go for that one pair?

00:16:59.724 --> 00:17:01.045
That's just the right color.

00:17:01.045 --> 00:17:02.724
They have that extra pocket in the back.

00:17:02.935 --> 00:17:06.625
You wanna have that little extra something
that makes them really wanna advocate

00:17:06.625 --> 00:17:09.865
for you because then they get to close
their laptop and go home for the day.

00:17:10.260 --> 00:17:13.290
Then after the interview, the most
important thing after an interview is to

00:17:13.290 --> 00:17:16.950
send that thank you email, which again
is part of the secret language of work.

00:17:16.950 --> 00:17:19.290
It's something that a lot of
people don't know to do unless

00:17:19.290 --> 00:17:20.610
somebody told you to do it.

00:17:20.700 --> 00:17:24.030
It's not intuitive to send somebody a
thank you email after a job interview.

00:17:24.360 --> 00:17:25.860
You just wanna send
something really simple.

00:17:26.080 --> 00:17:28.120
Hey Kate, thanks so much
for your interview today.

00:17:28.120 --> 00:17:29.740
I really enjoyed learning
more about the role.

00:17:29.740 --> 00:17:31.780
I'm even more excited to
be in the running now.

00:17:31.930 --> 00:17:35.950
Here again are three reasons why I think
I would be a great fit for this position.

00:17:36.070 --> 00:17:39.340
1, 2, 3, keep it really short,
and then I really look forward

00:17:39.340 --> 00:17:40.390
to hearing back from you herein.

00:17:41.490 --> 00:17:42.030
Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

00:17:42.150 --> 00:17:43.230
Manage that anxiety.

00:17:43.230 --> 00:17:45.870
Do something for the physical
part of it and the mental part.

00:17:46.260 --> 00:17:50.790
Make sure that you understand
the job and target your responses

00:17:50.790 --> 00:17:52.440
to their job description.

00:17:52.770 --> 00:17:54.840
Be the best pair of jeans you can be.

00:17:54.840 --> 00:17:56.130
I love that analogy.

00:17:56.490 --> 00:17:59.790
And then taking the time to show that
you're really passionate and sending

00:17:59.790 --> 00:18:02.850
that thank you note, there's an added
benefit to sending a thank you note.

00:18:02.850 --> 00:18:06.510
If there's anything you want to clarify
or correct or add, you can do it there.

00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:10.140
I think managing anxiety, tailoring
the message to the job, making sure

00:18:10.140 --> 00:18:11.760
you'd say something that's memorable.

00:18:12.030 --> 00:18:14.070
Finally sending that thank
you note, really good advice.

00:18:14.550 --> 00:18:17.310
Everything we've talked about so
far, which has been things you

00:18:17.310 --> 00:18:18.840
do verbally, things you think.

00:18:18.930 --> 00:18:22.410
Do you have one bit of advice
for what you do with your body?

00:18:22.770 --> 00:18:25.890
Do you have one suggestion
for our non-verbal presence?

00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:27.660
Erin McGoff: Keep open body language.

00:18:27.900 --> 00:18:28.980
Definitely don't cross your arms.

00:18:28.980 --> 00:18:31.890
That's a defensive position and I
think it's okay to cross your legs.

00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:34.620
Keep your hands visible
on the table if you can.

00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:38.400
Humans subconsciously don't like hidden
hands, so you wanna keep visible hands.

00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:43.290
Matt Abrahams: Great advice, open,
visible hands, forward leaning, signals

00:18:43.290 --> 00:18:45.630
interest and intent, which is really good.

00:18:45.665 --> 00:18:49.200
Thank you for providing advice that you
can do both in person and virtually.

00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:51.750
Everything you described can
be done via video as well.

00:18:52.740 --> 00:18:55.020
Before we end, I'd like to
ask you three questions.

00:18:55.020 --> 00:18:58.949
One I create just for you, and the
other two are similar across everybody.

00:18:59.129 --> 00:18:59.850
You ready for that?

00:19:00.179 --> 00:19:00.720
Erin McGoff: I'm ready.

00:19:01.050 --> 00:19:04.110
Matt Abrahams: So you, for a
living, give people advice.

00:19:04.290 --> 00:19:08.310
I'm curious, what's the best
advice you've ever received?

00:19:08.729 --> 00:19:12.060
Erin McGoff: My dad is great at giving
these little short snippets and he

00:19:12.060 --> 00:19:16.290
always says, from when I was younger,
to be intentional and persist variously.

00:19:16.530 --> 00:19:19.080
So be intentional about where you
wanna go and what you wanna do in life.

00:19:19.110 --> 00:19:22.620
Be specific about it, and
then persist variously.

00:19:22.649 --> 00:19:27.030
So don't let any obstacle get in your
way and every day be intentional and

00:19:27.090 --> 00:19:28.560
persist variously, what can we do today?

00:19:28.739 --> 00:19:30.090
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, fast and the furious.

00:19:30.090 --> 00:19:30.840
I think that's great.

00:19:30.840 --> 00:19:33.270
Have intention and act
tenaciously towards it.

00:19:33.270 --> 00:19:33.810
Thank you.

00:19:34.080 --> 00:19:37.560
Question number two, who is a
communicator that you admire and why?

00:19:37.919 --> 00:19:39.719
Erin McGoff: Some of the best
communicators I've seen are in my family.

00:19:39.899 --> 00:19:41.790
My parents communicate different ways.

00:19:41.790 --> 00:19:45.479
My mom is a very authentic and
intentional communicator, and my dad

00:19:45.479 --> 00:19:49.709
is a very straightforward and intense
communicator, and I think having those

00:19:49.709 --> 00:19:51.689
two, I got to see different sides of it.

00:19:51.689 --> 00:19:53.219
So I have to say both my parents.

00:19:53.459 --> 00:19:55.649
Matt Abrahams: It's really interesting
how people answer this question.

00:19:55.649 --> 00:19:58.260
Some take people that are very close
and near and dear to them and others

00:19:58.260 --> 00:20:01.709
pick people who are in the public
eye, and you can learn from both.

00:20:02.385 --> 00:20:04.335
Alright, the final question.

00:20:04.635 --> 00:20:09.045
What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

00:20:10.274 --> 00:20:12.524
Erin McGoff: Number one
is to know your audience.

00:20:12.824 --> 00:20:16.064
Not all audiences are created equal,
so if you're going into a meeting

00:20:16.064 --> 00:20:20.415
with a HR rep in a huge corporation,
that's different than going into a

00:20:20.415 --> 00:20:22.094
meeting with a CEO of a small company.

00:20:22.274 --> 00:20:25.605
So you need to know your audience
and know who you're talking to

00:20:25.665 --> 00:20:27.225
and know what their goals are.

00:20:27.584 --> 00:20:31.784
The second thing is to know you and to
know your goals and your desired outcome.

00:20:31.969 --> 00:20:33.860
What do you want out of this conversation?

00:20:33.860 --> 00:20:36.620
So first, thinking about what they
want out of the conversation and

00:20:36.620 --> 00:20:38.330
put yourself in their shoes first.

00:20:38.600 --> 00:20:41.090
And then think about what you want
out of the conversation and then you

00:20:41.090 --> 00:20:42.469
can think about how those two align.

00:20:42.860 --> 00:20:46.100
And my third thing I would
have to say is just smile.

00:20:46.699 --> 00:20:49.969
So many people when they get into
sticky conversations or difficult

00:20:49.969 --> 00:20:53.629
conversations that they get so serious,
they get a little defensive, just smile.

00:20:53.689 --> 00:20:56.000
The solution is out there and
you're gonna find it together.

00:20:56.300 --> 00:20:59.000
So I think it's really important to always
keep that collaborative spirit alive.

00:20:59.370 --> 00:21:03.659
Matt Abrahams: So know your audience,
know yourself, be collaborative, and

00:21:03.659 --> 00:21:05.340
show up with a smile on your face.

00:21:05.429 --> 00:21:08.220
I think those are three important
ingredients that would lead

00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:09.929
to a very successful outcome.

00:21:10.470 --> 00:21:13.620
Erin, I can see why you are
so good at giving advice.

00:21:13.620 --> 00:21:16.139
It's practical, it's
tactical, it's relatable.

00:21:16.139 --> 00:21:21.000
Thank you so much for your time, for
your advice, and I wish you the best

00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.159
of luck on The Secret Language of Work.

00:21:23.550 --> 00:21:24.600
Erin McGoff: Thank you so much, Matt.

00:21:24.600 --> 00:21:25.230
This was great.

00:21:27.470 --> 00:21:29.450
Matt Abrahams: Thank you for
joining us for another episode of

00:21:29.450 --> 00:21:31.760
Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

00:21:32.060 --> 00:21:34.610
To learn more about workplace
best practices, please listen

00:21:34.610 --> 00:21:37.240
to Lorraine Lee in episode 202.

00:21:37.649 --> 00:21:41.540
This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abraham.

00:21:42.690 --> 00:21:44.220
Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

00:21:44.520 --> 00:21:46.740
With thanks to the Podium Podcast Company.

00:21:47.129 --> 00:21:50.280
Please find us on YouTube and
wherever you get your podcasts.

00:21:50.430 --> 00:21:52.500
Be sure to subscribe and rate us.

00:21:52.710 --> 00:21:54.830
Also, follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram.

00:21:55.139 --> 00:21:59.250
And check out fastersmarter.io for
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00:21:59.250 --> 00:22:01.350
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00:22:01.649 --> 00:22:05.040
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