269. Ask Matt Anything: Bring Clarity to Complicated Conversations

WEBVTT

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Matt Abrahams: Ready, set, go.

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Let's get into some communication
conundrums and questions.

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I'm Matt Abrahams and I teach
strategic communication at Stanford

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Graduate School of Business.

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Welcome to this Quick Thinks Ask
Matt Anything episode of Think

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Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

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One of the many, many things I love
about the Think Fast Talk Smart Learning

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Community is interacting with our members.

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I do this through posts, comments,
and discussions, along with author

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talks and AMAs, Ask Matt Anythings.

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Today I'm sharing a portion of
a recent Learning Community AMA.

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Listen in to learn about moving from
reacting to responding, memorizing

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to conversing, and how to integrate
these tips into your everyday life.

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And consider joining the Learning
Community at fastersmarter.io/learning

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to ask your questions live.

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So let's get to it.

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Learning Community Member 1:
Uh, I'm in Switzerland actually.

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Matt Abrahams: Oh, excellent.

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Love to hear your question, please.

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Learning Community Member 1:
I try to use the structure

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what, now what, so what, a lot.

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And if I prepare myself,
it works quite well.

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And then the conversation starts,
and I guess I'm a very emotional

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guy and I can be very impulsive.

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Once my values are hurt, I start to
become a little bit destructive and I

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just lose control about every structure,
say a few things then make some stupid

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comments, and then I find difficulties
how to control that situation.

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Matt Abrahams: What I'd like to suggest
is a few things, and you can let me

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know if you think they work, and in
fact, you can try them out and then

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write me inside the Learning Community
and we can engage in a conversation.

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For me at least, and what the research
suggests, is if you can give yourself

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a little bit of distance from the
offending act, whatever it is,

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somebody says something that upsets
you, somebody disrespects you in some

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way, if you can give yourself a little
bit of space, you can then make a

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more conscious decision rather than
just respond with whatever comes up.

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So how can you do that?

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Well, a couple things.

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One, you can literally ask for it.

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You can say, I wasn't expecting that,
or, wow, that didn't feel so good.

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Gimme a moment, and just ask for it.

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Now, that might feel weird to do, but
it gives you a second, and in that

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moment you can take a deep breath.

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You can recognize, hey, this is me
feeling really upset at this moment,

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or this is me feeling very confused,
and giving that distance, that

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psychological distance, can help.

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So I think the bottom line here, Florian,
is if you can buy yourself just a little

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bit of time, you can think a little
bit more, react rather than respond.

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I make a difference between those two.

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React is to act again, meaning you
think about it and then you act, respond

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is just to immediately do something.

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What I'm hearing is that you respond
quickly and maybe buying yourself

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some time to react will help.

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Other questions that folks might have?

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Learning Community Member 2: Yeah.

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Matt, I have a question.

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Matt Abrahams: Please.

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Learning Community Member 2: So I'm
very fascinated with this idea of improv

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speaking and, uh, impromptu speaking.

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So I did a TEDx talk about two years
ago and that was all memorization

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and it was all memory palace.

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And I did a pretty okay
job at it, I think.

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Do you suggest I use the basic trainings
I got with memory palace and how to

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adjust that so that I can actually
speak coherently, but also not be

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so fixated on that cognitive load,
which is exactly my stumbling blocks.

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Matt Abrahams: I love this question.

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First and foremost, congratulations
on focusing on this.

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Many people are just so glad to figure
out a way to get information out.

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They're not looking to be more
in the moment and spontaneous.

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Congratulations on giving a TEDx talk.

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There are times where you are
in a situation where you have

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to say something exactly right.

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Imagine a medical professional, a legal
professional, a politician, where it is

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really important to get it exactly right.

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And in those cases, if you don't have
notes or a teleprompter, then using some

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kind of memory aid can be really helpful.

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Now, for those of you who aren't familiar,
the memory palace is a technique.

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It's a technique of using spatial
location to help us remember.

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Human beings, our species, is
really good at spatial location, and

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there are whole theories as to why.

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And so the spatial palace has you put,
in your mind's eye, information in

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locations that are very familiar for you.

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So the reason it's called palace, it
often is done with a home or a setting.

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So if I am trying to learn something
and really make sure I remember

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it, I think about my childhood
home, the house I grew up in.

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I know the layout very well in my mind.

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And in each room or area of the house,
I put a concept, an idea, some words.

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It helps me remember because
I'm associating the information

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I want to communicate with a
location I'm very familiar with.

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So essentially I'm piggybacking
or hitchhiking on my brain's

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ability to remember location well.

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And so I just wanna make sure everybody
understood what we were talking about

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when we were talking about memory palace.

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It's a very useful technique.

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In fact, there are memory competitions.

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There's a great book called
Walking on the Moon with Einstein.

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It's about a journalist who was really
fascinated by these memory competitions

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and so much so that he actually started
entering them and ended up becoming a

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national or international memory champion.

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How can we feel more comfortable
getting through material spontaneously?

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I really believe the answer
is structure and practice.

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Structure as we were just talking about.

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What, so what, now what,
is an example of structure.

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There are many problem, solution,
benefit, past, present, future,

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comparison, contrast, conclusion.

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Lots of different structures.

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A structure provides a roadmap like a GPS.

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It is hard to get lost
if you have a structure.

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So by knowing my structure well, let's say
I want to use problem, solution, benefit.

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I'm trying to persuade people.

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I know the problem well,
I've thought about it.

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I've done research, whatever.

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I know the problem well.

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The solution is something I really believe
in, so I also know that well, and I've

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thought about how I and others benefit.

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So by having those different parts of
the structure known well, because I've

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thought about, spent time doing it, when
I'm in the process of delivering the

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communication, and if for some reason I
feel a little lost or concerned, I simply

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have to say, okay, I just talked about the
problem, I know solution always follows.

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So that's how a structure
provides a roadmap.

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Now, if you go from memorizing or
using a technique like the memory

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palace to just relying on structure,
it can feel like a big leap.

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And that's why practice in low
stake situations is important.

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So I wouldn't do this on a TED or
a TEDx stage for the first time.

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But I might do it in a PTA meeting or
in a team meeting when I'm presenting.

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So you have to practice
and relying on structure.

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And a third thing that I do that
really helps me, and for some people

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this works and for others it doesn't,
is I use questions as triggers.

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So if I were using problem, solution,
benefit, I might start my persuasive

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presentation meeting contribution by
saying there's a fundamental challenge

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that we have, and I'd like to ask
all of you, how can we solve it?

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So you see how I'm asking myself
a question and because I know the

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answer to the question, it helps me
get into the structure I want to use.

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So when I lecture my students,
I never say, today we're

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going to cover three points.

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I always say we're going to answer
three questions today, and then I pose

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the question as a trigger to help me
remember the structure that I want to use.

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So let me pause there.

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Do you think leveraging structure and
perhaps questions would be helpful

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to you, uh, in these circumstances?

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Learning Community Member 2: Absolutely.

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That really gave me great context.

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Thanks, Matt.

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Learning Community Member 3: My question
will be more about the preparation.

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I believe that my main challenge for
public speaking is having something

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interesting to say, especially
when I'm part of Toast Masters at

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McGill University here in Montreal.

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My challenge is that first
of all, I'm French speaking.

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I like to practice my public speaking
in English so that I will grow,

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I will increase my vocabulary,
grammar, and everything in English.

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My challenge is that I sometimes lack
the vocabulary, obviously, when I

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want to say some, uh, when I'm, I'm
presenting or speaking, and I know that

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I just have to increase listening to
podcast, reading, et cetera, et cetera.

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But my other challenge is structure,
organize my day, so that I still find

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time to, to find some time of learning.

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I'm just curious and have my own business
in PR, but I know I have to keep on

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learning and learning each and every day.

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Because just as you said, it's
a way of training your brain.

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And make sure that you grow in your
knowledge and your also your speaking.

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Matt Abrahams: I like that you are
thinking about improving communication,

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not just by doing it, and practice
is really important, but by learning

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skills, the why behind the what,
and listening to shows like Think

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Fast Talk Smart, reading books, can
be very helpful to building that.

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And then the other thing I liked
that you said is the building into

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your daily routine ways to learn
and practice communication skills.

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Many of us think that communication
is when we're standing up in a meeting

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or giving a big presentation or pitch,
but we're communicating all the time.

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The way in which we communicate and the
things we say and the order in which we

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say it, all of that can be instructive.

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So when you're having a family meal and
you're talking with your children, or when

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you are talking with a neighbor, there
are things you can be thinking about and

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working on that will help you in those
more formal types of communication.

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It's about intent.

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It's just about thinking.

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The best way to be engaged in
communication is to be curious.

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It's about being
interested, not interesting.

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And so if you can focus on asking
questions, paraphrasing to show that

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you've heard what the person says,
giving people more space to talk.

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You might have heard me tell this
story about my mother-in-law.

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She was a black belt in small talk,
and she would simply say, tell me more.

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So as part of a conversation,
she would give somebody space.

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And when you do that, you then find
interesting things to talk about.

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So we put a lot of pressure on
ourselves to be interesting and if we're

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interested, the interesting will follow.

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So ask questions, paraphrase,
give people space to talk, and

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you'll make a big difference.

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Every night before I go to bed.

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I spend a minute thinking about
one thing that went well in my

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communication that day, and one
thing that I was not as pleased

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with, something I'd like to work on.

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And every Sunday I go back and I look
at the list and I make a plan for

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the week ahead to work on that skill.

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So this week, something I did last
week, I was part of a conversation and

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I didn't feel that I listened very well.

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I was rushed and I had an agenda in mind
and I don't feel I listened very well.

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So this week I'm really
working on my listening skills.

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Who knows what I'll work on next week,
but, uh, that's how I have incorporated

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working on communication into my life.

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I know other people who have
a trusted other, uh, if you

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will, a communication buddy.

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And at the end of meetings, regular
meetings, like maybe team meetings,

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they'll sit down with their buddy, their
partner, and they'll just say, hey, gimme

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one strength and one thing to strengthen.

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So they build in feedback close
to the actual communication,

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so it's fresh in their minds.

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Sarah, I see your hand came up.

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Happy to hear from you.

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Learning Community Member 4: Yes.

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I just wanted to reflect
on what you were saying.

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When asking for feedback you just
ask the person, but you don't

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ask them just for a feedback.

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You tell them, I'm focusing on improving
this part or like talking or the body

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language or a specific category or a
specific topic that you're working on,

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and then asking this person to focus on
that part that you're working on during

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a meeting or during a presentation.

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And then they give you a feedback on that.

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So I think this is a very good method.

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I've read about it, I really like it.

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Matt Abrahams: And I really
appreciate you sharing that, Sarah.

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Sarah, where in the world are you?

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Learning Community Member 4: Egypt.

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Matt Abrahams: Egypt.

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Wonderful.

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Thank you.

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There's a whole bunch of research and a
lot of experts make the same suggestion.

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When asking for feedback it is
very important to be specific

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about the feedback you want.

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Giving feedback is hard.

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And if you make it easy for people,
people will often take the easiest route.

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If I just say, do you have any
feedback for me, it's the easiest

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route is to say, no, it was good.

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That's easy.

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It's not confrontational.

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So being specific, what are one or
two things I could do to help make

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this meeting run more effectively?

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Do you hear how that's a much more
specific ask, and it can be very helpful.

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Now, the other thing that's super
helpful when asking for feedback is

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to demonstrate that you heard the
feedback, doesn't mean you agree

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with it, and to try to act on it.

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People are much more likely to give
you feedback if they feel like you're

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really listening and that you're
really trying to make adjustments.

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Absolutely.

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And Sarah, I really appreciate that.

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Let me ask one question and then I
think we'll bring this to a close.

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I'm curious if you have had a time
to explore the Learning Community.

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And I'm curious to find what you
are finding valuable from it.

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There are so many different
features that will be helpful.

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We have our quests, which are guided
opportunities to learn a particular skill

00:13:46.829 --> 00:13:48.360
that go for a certain number of days.

00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:51.360
So any one quest has challenges in it.

00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:54.329
We just did a quest
together on small talk.

00:13:54.660 --> 00:13:57.360
But we have lessons, these
are asynchronous videos

00:13:57.360 --> 00:13:58.589
that cover different topics.

00:13:58.589 --> 00:14:01.350
We'll be releasing a new
lesson every so often.

00:14:01.350 --> 00:14:03.329
In fact, our next one is coming out soon.

00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:04.920
We have author talks.

00:14:04.920 --> 00:14:09.180
I just spoke with a mentor of mine,
Patricia Ryan Madson, fantastic.

00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:11.370
You can watch the, the recording of that.

00:14:11.730 --> 00:14:12.990
We have AI tools.

00:14:12.990 --> 00:14:16.530
We have one you type into that responds,
and then we have one you can talk to.

00:14:16.530 --> 00:14:19.680
It's like having a conversation
with me, and lots of other things.

00:14:19.680 --> 00:14:22.890
I'm just curious if one or two of you'd
be willing to share what you're finding

00:14:22.890 --> 00:14:26.829
value in in the Learning Community,
because we'd like to bring you more of it.

00:14:27.210 --> 00:14:30.020
Learning Community Member 2: So,
I really love the author talks.

00:14:30.020 --> 00:14:30.520
It was really good.

00:14:30.540 --> 00:14:30.750
Matt Abrahams: Oh, great.

00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:31.319
Thank you.

00:14:31.530 --> 00:14:33.210
Learning Community Member 2: I
did tune into the recent one.

00:14:33.645 --> 00:14:37.064
And I think it has a lot of great content.

00:14:37.334 --> 00:14:40.395
I just, timewise, it's
just a lot to get through.

00:14:41.324 --> 00:14:41.685
Matt Abrahams: Yes, of course.

00:14:41.685 --> 00:14:42.615
Learning Community Member 2: But
I was just curious if you thought

00:14:42.704 --> 00:14:46.454
of maybe having or implementing
something like a collaborative.

00:14:46.844 --> 00:14:47.954
Matt Abrahams: Tell me more about this.

00:14:48.285 --> 00:14:53.025
Learning Community Member 2: I find that I
learn better when I am in a group setting,

00:14:53.025 --> 00:14:55.064
or at least with one or two other people.

00:14:55.574 --> 00:14:58.485
And it fosters, because we're
talking about communication,

00:14:58.485 --> 00:14:59.985
it fosters that communication.

00:15:00.495 --> 00:15:06.330
And I think I could maybe learn new
things from a few people who might

00:15:06.330 --> 00:15:08.620
wanna join a pod of, or a smaller pod.

00:15:08.620 --> 00:15:12.360
Matt Abrahams: Absolutely, yes, and 100%,
we learn best when we work together.

00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:13.440
Thank you for sharing that.

00:15:13.680 --> 00:15:17.010
The goal of the quests is to try to
do that, you can do it on your own.

00:15:17.190 --> 00:15:19.830
There will be times where we
will organize them like we just

00:15:19.830 --> 00:15:21.660
did with the one on small talk.

00:15:22.170 --> 00:15:26.130
But also you have every right in
the Learning Community itself to

00:15:26.130 --> 00:15:29.580
post and say, I'm interested in,
hey, there's this quest on whatever.

00:15:29.880 --> 00:15:31.920
I'm interested in doing it, and
see if other people will join you.

00:15:31.920 --> 00:15:35.580
So I'm not saying, I'm not trying to put
it all on you by any means, we will try to

00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:39.810
facilitate some of this, uh, on a regular
basis, but you also have the opportunity.

00:15:39.810 --> 00:15:42.960
Part of what I'm hoping happens in the
Learning Community is people who have

00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.950
similar goals, and everybody has different
communication goals, can find each other.

00:15:46.950 --> 00:15:48.210
But I love that idea.

00:15:48.660 --> 00:15:50.849
Other thoughts about
the Learning Community?

00:15:51.180 --> 00:15:53.400
Learning Community Member 4: Yes, for
the small talk, the quest, it was really

00:15:53.400 --> 00:15:57.359
up to, I couldn't attend all the, the
calls like after the quest, the next

00:15:57.359 --> 00:16:01.020
day, but I watched the recording, so
it was really nice to hear from people

00:16:01.199 --> 00:16:05.490
when they said what they had practiced
and to do what, like what they did

00:16:06.060 --> 00:16:08.390
during these exercises, small exercise.

00:16:08.699 --> 00:16:12.405
And what I liked as well, like today
for example, there was, I think it

00:16:12.405 --> 00:16:15.705
was about the movement and engaging
with your audience, and I just

00:16:15.705 --> 00:16:18.945
posted a question because it was
talking about, uh, presenting in

00:16:18.945 --> 00:16:20.835
real life, not online or virtual.

00:16:20.895 --> 00:16:24.945
And I was asking about how to do
it virtually and to have this,

00:16:25.035 --> 00:16:26.685
the same thing, like do it online.

00:16:26.925 --> 00:16:29.715
And I got an answer like an hour after.

00:16:29.715 --> 00:16:32.415
So, so the support there is very amazing.

00:16:32.880 --> 00:16:35.490
Matt Abrahams: Yes, everybody
has expertise in communication.

00:16:35.490 --> 00:16:38.730
We've all been doing it for a long time,
so I love that other people are sharing.

00:16:38.730 --> 00:16:41.280
I am certainly not the only
voice that needs to be listened

00:16:41.280 --> 00:16:42.660
to or should be listened to.

00:16:42.870 --> 00:16:45.240
And thank you for taking the
time to join, not just the

00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:46.770
community, but for joining today.

00:16:46.770 --> 00:16:47.850
I hope you took value.

00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:52.140
I challenge all of you to continue
to explore and do the work.

00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:56.100
We have another author talk
coming up on February 12th.

00:16:56.100 --> 00:17:00.000
I'll be talking to my friend
and linguist, Valerie Fridland,

00:17:00.209 --> 00:17:01.739
one of my favorite episodes.

00:17:01.739 --> 00:17:02.759
I was talking to her.

00:17:03.090 --> 00:17:05.550
And then I will do another,
ask me anything towards the

00:17:05.550 --> 00:17:06.779
end of the month in February.

00:17:06.779 --> 00:17:11.670
So the goal is to have one author talk and
one AMA a month in the Learning Community

00:17:11.670 --> 00:17:12.929
as well as some of the other things.

00:17:12.929 --> 00:17:15.810
So please take, uh, advantage
of it and I appreciate that.

00:17:16.139 --> 00:17:18.960
I see there's one more quick
comment before we wrap up.

00:17:19.860 --> 00:17:20.130
Learning Community Member 3: Yes.

00:17:20.134 --> 00:17:25.710
It was just about the, the quest, I
really like the fact that we can, I

00:17:25.710 --> 00:17:27.960
can take some time to pause and think.

00:17:28.420 --> 00:17:32.159
And the quest really is really
helpful in the, the, the

00:17:32.159 --> 00:17:35.070
reflection, the introspection.

00:17:35.190 --> 00:17:36.929
I don't know if that's
the word in English.

00:17:37.469 --> 00:17:43.230
Thinking about, uh, what are the skills,
the tips, the things that I already

00:17:43.230 --> 00:17:49.350
have that I can put into, uh, action
to improve my, my public speaking.

00:17:49.650 --> 00:17:55.500
Or tools that I could, uh,
learn or improve, et cetera.

00:17:56.010 --> 00:17:59.760
And I really also enjoyed the, the books.

00:18:00.150 --> 00:18:06.420
Um, it's interesting to discover the
type of books that we can read or

00:18:06.420 --> 00:18:10.110
the type of authors or books that
we can, or maybe authors we can

00:18:10.110 --> 00:18:12.330
follow, or books that we can read.

00:18:12.840 --> 00:18:18.630
Because sometimes it's about like, there's
a lot of, uh, knowledge around the world,

00:18:18.630 --> 00:18:23.760
everywhere about communication, sometime
you don't really know where to look, so

00:18:23.760 --> 00:18:29.790
it's good if, with what you are doing
with the book club, it's like giving

00:18:29.790 --> 00:18:33.750
us some kind of roadmap or some ideas.

00:18:34.170 --> 00:18:35.179
Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.

00:18:35.179 --> 00:18:39.870
In, in the chat on the fastersmarter.io
site, which is the site for the

00:18:39.870 --> 00:18:42.275
podcast, uh, we have a whole book list.

00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:46.529
These are books from our guests and all
of them have to do with communication

00:18:46.529 --> 00:18:47.790
in some way, shape, or form.

00:18:50.460 --> 00:18:53.764
Thank you for joining us for this
Quick Thinks Ask Matt Anything episode.

00:18:54.554 --> 00:18:58.815
To join our next AMA Live, sign up
for our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning

00:18:58.815 --> 00:19:01.965
Community at fastersmarter.io/learning.

00:19:02.445 --> 00:19:07.335
This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

00:19:07.605 --> 00:19:09.165
Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

00:19:09.405 --> 00:19:11.385
With thanks to Podium Podcast Company.

00:19:11.864 --> 00:19:15.134
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