221. Don’t Get Lost in Translation: Staying Cool When Every Word Counts

[00:00:00] Matt Abrahams: Meaning matters, especially in high pressure negotiations or crisis situations, and we can all actively work to make sure our messages aren't lost in translation. My name is Matt Abrahams and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. As part of our four-part miniseries on spontaneous speaking, we introduced you to a number of coaches whose jobs require successful in the moment communication. So many of our listeners found value in our coach's advice that we wanted to provide you with an opportunity to hear our complete interviews. So today, I'm excited for you to learn from Giampaolo Bianchi. Giampaolo is a simultaneous interpreter who does work for the United Nations and the World Health Organization. His main areas of focus are on international diplomacy and politics, human rights, global health and foreign policy. Let's jump right in and learn from Giampaolo. Giampaolo, welcome. I look forward to our conversation.

[00:01:05] Giampaolo Bianchi: Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.

[00:01:07] Matt Abrahams: Excellent. Shall we get started?

[00:01:08] Giampaolo Bianchi: Let's.

[00:01:09] Matt Abrahams: So for over ten years, you've been a high stakes language interpreter for the UN and other governmental organizations. What languages do you speak and what trainings and experiences led you to do this kind of work?

[00:01:22] Giampaolo Bianchi: Here in, in Geneva, I mainly work with English, Spanish, and French. As for my, my training, well, I started out ten years ago at the University of Hawaii, and then eventually I obtained a master's degree in conference interpreting at the University of Geneva here in Switzerland.

[00:01:39] Matt Abrahams: I'm impressed that you went to school in Hawaii. I think that sounds awesome. Uh, so is a lot of the training just doing translation in real time? Is it like somebody drilling you and making sure everything you said is accurate?

[00:01:49] Giampaolo Bianchi: Uh, more or less. Yes. Uh, you start with simple speeches and you work on those and then you gradually work your way up and do things that are more difficult, until by the end of your training you are, you know, working for a half hour at a time and interpreting very difficult speeches.

[00:02:06] Matt Abrahams: Wow. That's amazing. Could, could I put you on the spot? I'm gonna ask you a question. Would you mind translating the question that I ask and then answer it back in English? Would that be okay?

[00:02:16] Giampaolo Bianchi: Sure.

[00:02:17] Matt Abrahams: You've translated in really high pressure situations with super important conversations happening. How do you stay calm and collected while also thinking on your feet during these tense moments?

[00:02:30] Giampaolo Bianchi: Usted ha interpretado en situaciones donde hay mucha presión y en donde se están celebrando conversaciones muy importantes. Cómo mantiene usted la calma?

[00:02:47] That's basically my, my interpretation of the, of the question. And as for the answer, well, there are a lot of sort of smaller actions that you can take to help you focus. For example, just your posture, the way that you hold yourself while you're working. You know, you're sitting in the booth and you have both feet planted on the ground. You have, you know, you keep your back straight. Try to anchor yourself to the ground, and that helps. Remembering to breathe is also very important. And on a mental level, zero-in on the present moment. You know, just focus on what you're doing at that exact moment. Don't dwell on anything else.

[00:03:30] Matt Abrahams: I want to just point out for our audience who can't see you, but I can, two things happened. When I asked you to translate, you actually did go into that position naturally. It's not that you were slouching or leaning, but all of a sudden I saw you become more formal. And I definitely saw you take a a breath. I wanna ask you a question that came from what you said in Spanish. You were clearly not just repeating my words, but you were inflecting those words to convey some of the same emotion that I was trying to convey. Talk to me about the role of conveying emotion. 

[00:04:08] Giampaolo Bianchi: Sure. Well, in our profession, we often say that we don't translate words. We translate ideas. The idea is to try and embody the person that you're interpreting. You try and sort of get into their head, figure out what it is that they're saying and why they're saying it. And yes. You'll follow the tone or the, the inflection, uh, without exaggerating, you know, you don't want to, you don't want to become a caricature of the person that's speaking originally. You, you're almost playing a role in a sense.

[00:04:37] Matt Abrahams: Oh, that's really interesting, that's fascinating. It's scary that you're trying to inhabit, you know what I'm trying to say because I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say. How, you know, I can imagine in these intense conversations people go on for a long period of time. How are you remembering everything they're saying as they're saying it? Is there some way you do that?

[00:04:58] Giampaolo Bianchi: Well, it, it depends on the mode of interpreting. There is simultaneous interpreting and consecutive interpreting. A consecutive is just when a person speaks a phrase in one language, then you repeat it in the other language, and we do take notes when that happens. We have developed a system of notes to help you kickstart your memory and to sort of guide you along the speech as you're interpreting. And as for simultaneous interpreting, well, you are going to have to concentrate very hard for a sustained period of time. So it can, it's very taxing.

[00:05:36] Matt Abrahams: Would you mind sharing, like one thing you do to try to maximize your cognitive bandwidth? I know that when I'm really trying to concentrate and remember a question somebody asks or something, I might look down and away because looking at people's faces gets distracting to me. 

[00:05:50] Giampaolo Bianchi: Um, sometimes I do something similar, you know, sometimes when I'm, I really need to concentrate, I'll close my eyes and put my, my head in my hands and try and focus that way. Sometimes, on the other hand, I do actually have to look at the person. Because there are lots of, uh, nonverbal cues that can help me. You know, body language and, and so on. But I would say like, the number one thing that I do to avoid cognitive overload is just preparation.

[00:06:18] Matt Abrahams: Okay. So tell me about that and what, what's that preparation look like?

[00:06:21] Giampaolo Bianchi: When a conference interpreter works at a meeting, they have to know almost everything about the meeting before it even begins. So if I'm interpreting a conference, I will look up the organization that I'm working in, you know, figuring out who's the director, general, who's the deputy director general, um, what's the structure of the organization? What do they do? Why do they do it? And then I'll look up the specific meeting. Why are they meeting, what are they there to discuss? What do you think is going to be said at the meeting? Given the delegates that are there, you know, sometimes you might even go so far as to look up the delegates, uh, online and see if they're already recorded, speeches of them so that you can listen to them and sort of prepare, uh, by getting used to their accent.

[00:07:08] You can also, we'll look up the, the jargon that's used in the organization. Are there any important acronyms or any technical terms that you really need to know? Because if you prepare that information beforehand, and if you really study it and learn it by heart, you can almost automate the process of thinking about those things so that you can then dedicate your mental resources to something else. Because if you spend, you know, every second that you spend thinking about, oh, what does that acronym mean? Is a second that you're not spending on understanding what, what is being said and interpreting it. 

[00:07:44] Matt Abrahams: That's phenomenal. So it is in that in depth preparation that you are freeing up your cognitive bandwidth in the moment. One of the things that you mentioned that I think is so important is many of us are in interactions with people who don't necessarily speak the language we speak as their native tongue, so they have accents. And I love this notion of actually trying to see if you can hear the person speaking prior to ever being in the moment with them, so you can train your brain to be prepared for what they're saying. That's really important. I really appreciate you sharing. I'd like to go to the moment before you start, 'cause I can imagine there's some anxiety, some excitement. What do you do to prepare yourself that helps you get ready to get started?

[00:08:30] Giampaolo Bianchi: Well, one of the things that I, that every good interpreter does is they usually arrive at the venue at least half an hour before the beginning of the meeting. You want to be there as early as possible so that you can iron out any technical issues that might pop up, talk to the technicians and perhaps even the delegates, and try and get information from them that way. 

[00:08:51] Matt Abrahams: It sounds to me like it's almost a ritual and that ritual might actually also help you calm down and get prepared.

[00:08:58] Giampaolo Bianchi: Yeah, it is kind of like that. Yes.

[00:09:01] Matt Abrahams: It's interesting. So I've interviewed actors and actresses and a lot of what you're describing sounds similar to what they do. I am sure, you're human, that you have made mistakes or you've been less accurate than you intended. How do you recover in those moments? 

[00:09:17] Giampaolo Bianchi: Well, the first thing that you have to do, if you're able to correct it immediately, then you can just correct it immediately. Above all, you just need to keep calm, sort of keep it in the back of your head and try and go back to it when, whenever you can. 

[00:09:32] Matt Abrahams: Excellent. Well, yeah, and I think that's true for any of us when we make a mistake. You have to make an in the moment choice. Can I correct it now or do I have to come back to it later? Or maybe it's not significant enough to even matter. I'm curious, at the completion of a translation, do you ever talk to the people for whom you translated? Do they ever give you feedback? Do they ever say, hey, thank you, or, that was helpful? Or is that something that's, you just don't do? That's not allowed or expected? 

[00:10:00] Giampaolo Bianchi: Um, it's not something I do very often to be honest. Uh, we interpreters tend to be more behind the scenes people. You know, we go into the booth in the back of the room and then we do our job. 

[00:10:11] Matt Abrahams: Do you find, do you find it hard to turn off this way of communicating when you're just in everyday communication? You know, as somebody who teaches communication, I have had to learn over time to just turn off my brain and not be analyzing the things that I get paid to analyze, you know, the things I teach. Do you find yourself in like everyday interaction switching languages or noticing things that get distracting from the moment of being real can, really present and connected with the people you're talking to?

[00:10:42] Giampaolo Bianchi: Yeah, it does happen a lot. I mean, I tend to use a lot of interpreter speak even when I'm not interpreting. And sometimes I need to stop myself and say, you're not, you're not interpreting anything. You are just having a normal conversation.

[00:10:57] Matt Abrahams: Conversation.

[00:10:58] Giampaolo Bianchi: And it also happens that you'll be interpreting, sometimes I'm interpreting for so long that I'll find myself interpreting everything else in my head. So, you know, I'll be watching a TV show and interpreting it in my head.

[00:11:12] Matt Abrahams: Sure. Giampaolo, this has been fantastic. Before we end, I'd like to ask you three questions that I'm asking everyone in our miniseries on spontaneous communication. Are you up for that?

[00:11:21] Giampaolo Bianchi: Sure.

[00:11:22] Matt Abrahams: So this will fascinate me. Who is a communicator that you admire and why?

[00:11:27] Giampaolo Bianchi: I really admire Carl Sagan because he is so good at taking very complex ideas and explaining them in a way that is very easy to understand. He's just an expert at teaching you very complex ideas and doing so in a way that is very natural and almost spontaneous. And I think that's very admirable.

[00:11:55] Matt Abrahams: You're right. I mean, he was very good at doing that, and I'm not surprised that somebody who does what you do would admire somebody who, in a similar vein, translated very technical scientific information for those of us who are less technical and scientific. Question number two. Well, those listening likely won't need to speak in the situations you do, what advice would you give for them to be better spontaneous speakers in the moment?

[00:12:20] Giampaolo Bianchi: Analyze what people are saying. What is the idea that they're trying to communicate and how are they communicating it? Why are they using certain words and not others? Or why are they avoiding the use of certain words? And really try and analyze what people are saying and how and why. And that'll help you when you have to, you know, do it, do it yourself. 

[00:12:43] Matt Abrahams: Yeah. So to be a really detailed observer of the communication, not just what's being said, but how and why in the language, to help yourself. But also I think as you shared, you get deeper understanding. Final question. Uh, I'd like you to give me some homework. What is one communication thing that I could do in my life that simulates something you do regularly, what advice would you give me so that I could do that thing well?

[00:13:13] Giampaolo Bianchi: Well, I guess this goes back to what we were saying earlier about preparation. The language that we speak is our primary tool when we're interpreting, and you should learn to use that tool as efficiently as possible. And one of the ways to do that is to practice different ways of saying things. For example, there's an exercise that interpreters do when they're preparing. They'll take a concept and they'll think of as many different ways of saying the same concept as they can. So for example, how many different ways do you know of saying, go up? Something can go up, but it can also grow. It can escalate, it can hike, it can balloon, it can skyrocket. Uh, and then the opposite, you know, for things that are going down. They can descend, they can plummet, they can bottom out, and really practice those things over and over and over. And then try to use them in your everyday language instead of, instead of saying the same thing more than once, just use a synonym. 

[00:14:20] Matt Abrahams: Well, thank you for elevating our game without lowering our abilities. That was really helpful and I'm going to practice that. I think that's a wonderful tool. Well, Giampaolo, this has been incredibly educational. Thank you for sharing what you do on a daily basis and translating that so the rest of us can understand. I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

[00:14:45] Giampaolo Bianchi: Well, thank you. Muchas gracias. Merci beaucoup.

[00:14:52] Matt Abrahams: Thank you so much for joining us for another episode of Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. To learn more from our spontaneous speaking coaches, listen to our four-part miniseries, episodes 197, 198, 199, and 203. You can also go to fastersmarter.io/spontaneous. This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, Michael Riley, and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wonder. With thanks to Podium Podcast Company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram and check out fastersmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter. Please consider our premium offering for extended Deep Thinks episodes, Ask Matt Anythings and much more at fastersmarter.io/premium.